jolin012

which tower did you "supercharge" with waterfall? as far as I know, only those towers with some certain damagetrigger or w/e it was called can cause the "stun", including for example quark but not flamethrower (remember flamethrower is faster but it was quark that was best stunner? The reason why i ask instead of watching the replay is cause i can't view replays here.

wrong. in 3.0 the chance was also affected by creep hp. (half the chance with double hp).

Note that this is for how Nova, the only non microable AoE slow works. There are other, advanced theories of how to use the others. Right now, i can't record no replay. there is internet and a slow pc here at the house in us, so for example now, when it's raining outside and all the others are off to the store buying food, i have a little time at the forums and irc. I can reveal a few weird secrets, that Muck Windstorm and roots can be optimal with STSR 2pass (in terms of %support and not dmg) at rather, shall i say, unexpected placements, with proper micro. for example area "-"(minus) and area 8 come into play. Also that 1100towers together might not be optimal at parts of 5 anymore, when aoe slows come into play... I was thinking about posting this in the strategy forum along with some replays, it's a quite fascinating science imo, although there is not always time for that micro, especially not in Random.

it was attempted to be implemented but it caused various bugs. therefore it remained hotkeys only for pure essence and interest rate increase.

Sounds like you're not aware of the consequences of what you're talking about. for example, adding a tower with stun for example, is a big thing man. it messes up the entire map balance.

Err, what? and as for the coding parts they could all be shrinked to minimal. for example for team selections, there could be added, before wave 1 countdown starts, a 1min(or 2min) team selection time, where everyone's maze has spawned 7 teleporter gateway entrances and 1 teleporter gateway landing. From these, players themselves could make up teams by traveling between mazes. Afaik teleporters are not something rare and hardcoded in wc3, but that was just what i thought myself, infact i have no actual idea. if a player wants to play alone there could be a button on his own landing gateway "Destroy gateways - I don'twanna team/I declare my team full". The easiest way to make players get allies, would be to make all non allies, but allow 'em to become allies manually (in the regular wc3 allies tap), and ingame request them to check the allies boxes of his allies. creep bounty: Fine - if that is coding, then leave it as, the one to make a kill gets the money. that shoudl work too - and the one who decides to build at entrance doesnt' get kills nessesarily, becuase all in team need to fight to get the creep down.

All I claim is that the supernova increases the number of attacks that the singletarget tower does on the first creep by 42% (1/0.7 aka the remaining movementspeed). The reason why I landed on 10% and you on 30% was because I used a 600ranged ST tower, which has fewer attacks on the first creep than longer ranged 2pass tower (nature tower, that you used K). Also I was using an entire 2pass, area 6, while you were using area 5, which has many more attacks on the first creep to boost. I also claim that why it doesn't boost the entire wave while it slows the entire wave, is because while the creep get slower, they also get tighter, which makes, as soon as the frist creep gets out of range, the wave of creeps the same long in terms of time, ie 14sec long. So supernova boosts a kindle by the complete 42%. supernova boosts a 2pass arrow by about 10%. supernova boosts a longpass nature by alot. not testing, but must be below 42%. perhaps 30%-35%. Also note that 30% slow tops 42% boost (42.8 to be exact, should've written 43), because with 70% movementspeed it spends 42% (1/0.7) more time to walk the same way. that is why kindle has 42% boost by supernova, every creep gets struck 42% more, because it basicly is a multiattacking singletarget. Splash is a whole different story because creep spacing changes with slowing. beta 15b nova tower..w3g

So sorry, I cannot enter the discussion at the time (the time I set myself <!-- s:oops: --><!-- s:oops: --> ) I tried to enter the irc, but it fails, and java doesn't work either. Will get back to my own pc within a few hours - can read the chatllog and this thread aswell ofcourse. Edit: was referring to IRC meeting, posted this in wrong thread.

I have axed Individual Defense - and left standing is the most importantpart and the very much shrinked Team mode (Shared maze/elementals). Once teams are selected, builders will get teleported to their teams maze. Either the killer gets the bounty, or they each get bounty for every 4th kill the team does. And that's it. I don't see the big coding coming up. Why want it so badly? because I think many people will really apreciate it. (minor adding: The players should be set to allies if that is possible - so that otehrs don't have to hear their team chatting.) Discussion could go back and fourth for a longer time than it actually would take to implement here, therefore I'll rather call to an irc meeting. between 19:00 and 20:00 tomorrow (tuesday) UTC. that is 20-21 for germany/sweden/south africa I think. So hard to set a time that should work for everyone. Edit: right, holepercent - your timezone doesn't work at all with this time set, so sorry. You could always drop by your comments in this thread before or after (if ya read that hour of irc chatlog, it prolly won't take an hour anyway.

sounds like alot of new balance to make those cursing wave/flame strike equal to each other.

Congratulations everyone (especially kirby). Nice replays. Largest filesize wins

I might be able to join this time. Edit, just reminded myself I'm in the US next 2 weeks, meaning no draft for me

Disagreed. compared to for example oblivion or tidal or zealout. it needs micro needs knowledge and needs placement. and it handles mechanicals really good, beeing longrange. but try half that amount but of oblivions, it'll work too if you micro that one correctly and place it correctly. micro is a big thing, it doesn't only require you to know how to micro it, it also requires your attention, especially longrange it takes alot of there time where you could've rebuilt. Also longrange towers have a little higher top dmg due to the fact that in a multiplayer climate, a tidal opponent wouldn't allow you to attack the creeps until they reach area "-" because the next wave will allready be in your maze.

hey, nice challange(and original, afaik none else used greedisgood in challanges before), i will try it if i find time. the only thing that bothers me is actually the time it takes to reach level 60:p. I guess Shortmode is at least accepted, to shorten it a little bit. You made it clear with "All other modes normal" but I request a rulechange before anyone submited a replay, just to make it more handy for players who wish to try it=).

If you want a title then you have to prove what you actually did. Or even if you want someone to believe that you actually did what you claim that you did. My tip: start saving replays, unless you don't care if others believe in what you claim you did.

What we currently need mostly now, as i guess everyone knows is first of all individual tower balance. And I guess we all have gathered oppinions of most towers now, (perhaps not a new opinion of those that changed in 15b). But how to discuss and reach something that we can agree upon. Currently, I for example posted the ones i felt needed buff/nerf, and everyone don't even comment in the thread, and half of them I guess you just think "Oh, I don't think it is as bad as he thinks, i think it only needs a 20%buff while he sais 40%", and don't bother to post. Thats true for me too. Why? because It takes alot to explain and comment and discuss every individual tower on the forums. It just can't be done without spending a vast amount of time before even understanding each other. We must discuss in the IRC. I have for example tried to find Karawasa in the IRC for some time to discuss things, but I didn't speak to him for like a mounth. Due to international timezones we should set dates to have meetings, not that every beta leader is forced to go there that time, but so that we know that the others are there. With arranged meetings we could discuss individual towers together and find the balance that we agrees to test on alot easier, and that way, get done a lot faster. Because i think IRC is a very effective way to express balance thoughts. Agreed? Thoughts?

perhaps even replace the poll... votes on the former golem remain (unless for those who go change it) ...

If you like Forge tower - you should try well tower (water+nature) aswell. it is equally good

Hi jacob! and welcome to the forums. reguarding your tactic - which difficulty are you playing?. and perhaps you can provide us with a replay?=) it's pretty handy that replays can be attached to posts.

First of all, your ideas are not at all crazy ginc (except one) 1 sure is interesting. I think it was discussed but never added - while it should be added. But I'd say timer is off until next wave's countdown begins rather than when wave is killed because in multiplayer the game goes on whoever kills the wave (and starts next countdown). 2 agreed with DDRKirby 3 Yep this is fixed - you should become a betatester - we are 5 betas ahead of you 4 Yap, these are no longer Support/Towers. 5 Also been taken care of. I think i can reveal that some got the thing you said and some got a range increase ( for the ability to micro for kills). 6 disease replaced. your idea exists too, under a different name. drowning is not underpowered. in fact in 4.0pb, it's effet is both armor ignorant and armor type ignorant, so it works well on very hard. on lower difficulties however the armor ignore doesn't help much and makes it compare weak to other towers. However - that is fixed for next ver. Your drowning idea is crazy 20% of max hp killed by a damage tower. for 1500g. isn't that a bit powerful, for example lvl 60, 1500g can take care of a 5th of the dmg that needs to be done. Well yes, that is what other towers can, such as polar voodoo enchantment corrosion roots muck windstorm nova blacksmith well trickery. but that is part opf the balance. there are 8/3 support towers that can boost the buildds total damage by a certain %. But they are limited to make every build possible to play and none overpowered. 7. and the balance for 4.0 failed. periodic was too powerful. it is nerfed. But -

ok, you are right, we don't want a mode where proper map balance doesn't work out. as cisz said more than 11lumber cannot be in play in the same maze. meaning Shared Elements works but IE does not. However, TimberWolf's sugguestion could work out with a few modifications. how about this: Keep SE(shared Elements) but rename it to SD(shared defense(sm is shortmode)) and add the other type of team mode called ID(individual defense). SD is the same as explained before, all in one maze withshared elements. the only change I make here and now is that instead of a Xth of the gold for each kill to each player, there will be full bounty to every player for each kill. and creep hp is multiplied by X. if a player leaves creep hp is changed to be multiplied by the "New X"(new number of players). (the net worth of the player who left is given to teammates. and towers destroyed) this solves the pure essence problem and the "0.20cent awarded" problem, but the SE teammates have to keep placement in mind as there is not much room if they don't cooperate. ID All players of a team stay in their former Maze. Everyone has their Own lumber. Creep hp is multiplied by X (X beeing the number of players in team). Creep spawn in player 1's maze and once they leak they enter the maze of player 2 in team. If they leak the last players' maze then the team loses a [pre:3lqmkpku]life. While[/pre:3lqmkpku]there are (most likely) X elementals spawned, the Elemental hp is not multiplied by x, like the creep hp is. Gold for any kill in team is given (full bounty) to every player in team. Interest works just like in SD. Healing units healing rate is divided by 1.5X or 2X (x beeing the number or team members). why 1.5 or 2X and not just X?, well because if it steps through several mazes there is a much larger time to regenerate, which is rather unfair. There is a damage counter, so it should be possible to determine when a Xth of the 30 creeps altogether max hp is lost (for example either 15 of them dead or all at 50% hp in a team of 2). And when a Xth of hp is lost of a wave, that counts as Wave killed, Aka, Timer starts for next wave, unless someone already started it. IT would be boring for the last player in a team to not get any creep unless on composite +classification waves. therefore it, if it works, should be like, every 10 waves, the players switch locations. player 1->2 2->3 etc. Either the towers in a maze change color - to the one who moved there, and the spared gold stays to the maze. Or - the player and his towers(and cash) changes maze. is any of the 2 codeable?

well, these should be balanced as soon as the towers are balanced. but as for which ones that have a good cover aginst the other dmg dual, I can not promise any exact perfect balance because the eles for dmg go in the circle F>N>E>L>D>W> which means - the sup duals should be FL, ND and EW but they are not. meaning in 3eles with EF or WN there is a good chance that they can cover each other (as fire covers earth). same for WN(where W covers N). but a lower chance for good cover builds in LD(light doesn't cover Dark, although it's easier to kill the darkness lvl 2/3 eles). But - I do not sugguest to chang ethe elemental combinations of support towers in 4.0

I see. too bad. thanks for response

hehe, nice finding we shall we have some sort of celebration at 1000 topics/10000 posts? confetti, and cake for everyone?

yep, so no towers can be named with something that begins with S. that's why storm sludge Steam and summoning are renamed. About Steam, isn't that an exception? "Stop" can't be used with either water or fire tower (they attack too fast) so shouldn't that one be able to be named with an S? I have asked this many times (not nessesarily on forums, perhaps just other ppl who didn't know for sure)before but cannot remember that i got any helpful answer.