jolin012

a split bounce. sounds like multishot+bounce. there's nothing about that concept not working. but imo it's not very fancy, feels like we allready have many of those towers, we have multishot(hail) and we have bounce(elec).

not hot. no reasoning for it. 1100 or 1500 is better. and light has 1500. more damage please.

hehe yep, it's not a fantastic rep there is one much better strat out there hehe.

Cloning unfinished buildings, or buildings in the middle of an upgrade is very useful since the "don't clone me"-marker is lost. Now that Periodic works to clone properly that was the easiest to abuse, but I've done it with towers like comet tower before. (upgrading cancling, upgrading cancling for more clones.). Hmm - how to fix it? I guess the best and only way is that if an original tower is sold, so is clone, if it is upgraded or downgraded(aka upgrade cancled), so shall the clone. This is what i talked about before when mentioning "clone shall follow originals status" both in terms of this, and also smith/well effects.. But what does the coders say about that? beta 16b Trickery abuse.w3g

yes, darkness might need a buff. nota also taht it deals twice as much damage as what is needed at level 6 (aka, overkill)

Race mode, not too bad i guess. perhaps it would be better with 1 point per player you are faster than at each level. so that with 8 players, 7points to one player, 6 to another... ... and 0 points to the last player to finish a wave. Or? Actually I'd like to see both point gain, and life losses. but also life gains. 5 lives to each player when one player dies, like in competetive mode. yes, it was parhaps a bit too extreme before. I like that, not sure though which modes should be avdanced an d which should be simple modes. I would say chaos belongs to the more advanced modes. That is very good and important, Even more important would be to announce which difficulty everybody selects at the start of the game, in the same way announced. So that ppl don't keep playing VE cause they like winning and thinks nobody can see which dif they are on (afaik 99% don't know of multiboard colors). makes a bit more sense now but we still miss a metallic ball excellent, i tested it too. how was it not accurate before? what changed?-Waygate now shifts camera view between builder and bringer this one was added change to 16b, and i still don't like it. I would like to see this fleshgolems concept replaced. I think there should be attention payed to this thread, if someone doesn't like that, tell why and it might be fixable. um ok. i guess that works too. ye felt they should be more used in earlygame? or that 4ele builds needed a buff? honestly didn't test yet the performance of beta 16(/b) quark. I just reviewed all spells of SW mode, and i must say I don't like it. where are the bombs? and, no offense, but are those spells really fun? At least i was thinking about not only more flashy effects but also more fun ways to screw someone over, like offer they some wine and their screen goes all dizzy and bombs ofcourse, and sure some creep buff and force sell is cool, but I don't like 3 creepbuffers beeing the main source for screwing the others over. While reviewing SW i found a bug btw, force sell can sell your own towers... at 100%... on pick..

I allready did that, remember? viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1111&p=9820&hilit=autocast#p9820

as the topic sais, [beta 16b] Current Trickery status.. Excellent work on getting pure clones to work (aka not cost food to have). Still to fix: clones must share status with original in some way. it's not ok that with t1 or 2 trickery, twice as many wells/smiths needed, and with t3 trickery 3 times as many needed. This is important imo. level3 marker problem, was that fixed? Autocast range 700 should be 800, was wondering why it ain't fixed yet...

not much. only one creep has to be in range by 4 creeps can be hit. also current electricity with multishot 4, can bounce between 2 bosses for example, aka full power on 2< units. this is just me but i like to call kindle a type of multishot tower.

I guess you mean one amplified darkness at level 6. that is possible to not leak but not exactly easy, neither fast enough for multiplayer. LastReplay.w3g

first test: non boosted/Super Nova(from now and on called SN) boosted STSR tower on 2pass area 6. I tested arrow tower, nature tower and electricity tower, placed in the middle of area 6. how many attacks did it get w/ and w/o SNs slowing the creeps in range of the towers attack? Note that the towers have different attackspeeds, therefore, the % differance between w/ and w/o SN is all that is important. Arrow(600 Range) w/o SN: 16, 17, 16, 16, 16. Average: 16.2 Arrow(600 Range) w/ SN: 18, 18, 18, 18, 18 Average: 18 Boost by SN: 11.11% Nature(900 Range) w/o SN: 28, 28, 28, 28, 28. Average: 28 Nature(900 Range) w/ SN: 35, 34, 33, 35, 33. Average: 34 Boost by SN: 21.43% Electricity(1100 Range) w/o SN: 22, 21, 22, 22, 21. Average: 21.4 Electricity(1100 Range) w/ SN: 26, 29, 29, 28, 28. Average: 28 Boost by SN: 30.84% Conclution: The longer the range is, the more boosted is a stsr(singletarget shortrange) area 6 tower. Matter of fact is, that, except for the clumping that is part of the boost, the boost is, the time that the last creep of the wave is in range of the tower, that is the only thing being boosted for area 6 stsr tower with nonmicro slowingtower. But it is easier to check the attatcks on the first creep in wave because it automaticly does that, however, not entierly true number because clumbing is random and can be different between creep one and creep 30. it is infact not much more complicated than that. (Note that 30.84% is not full boost. Kindle tower should have 43%boost + corner-clumping-problem-boost total, around 45-50% boost.) um, and for the one who wants, here is the increibly boring replay of how i tested, but all importance is in the post allready, so please don't take the time to watch it unless you feel like ye have a reason for it^^ Supernova stsr area 6.w3g

Looking into The slows of the game. How they affect different towers. There are different types of towers in terms of how they react with Slowing. There is longrange, shortrange, kindletype towers, regular shortrange. Also they could be divided into splash and singletarget. within the Slowing towers, there are 2 groups, the nonmicro, which consists of nova tower, and there is micro, which is muck, roots, windstorm. The slow works different on different areas. Slowing towers have the power to: extend creep spacing (seconds between each creep), reduce creep spacing, extend the area between 2 passes, extend the amount of attacks in range of a tower (how many attacks it has on a boss, or how many on the first creep of a wave).

after irc discussion, i see what you mean, not speed that increase with levels, just a general movementspeed increase, which i agree with. In the irc there came new ideas, such as for the meanthook/hookshot to only hook onto targets, and one target is located at each place that a fleshgolem was built. so that with mroe than one golem, they can hook between area "5","9" and "-" for example. I got one new idea, that instead of experience that makes the golem grow stronger, which we don't like balancewise, how about: with levels, the Golem grows in damage and size, but loses movementspeed(perhaps also increased hook cooldown over levels). the loss in ms is to compromise the gained dmg, to keep it balanced, what do you think? you could begin with 2 golems, microing them with their good movementspeed, and once they grow larger and larger, ye spend more time microing other stuff, like your supporttowers that should be owned by that time. And, if we would use the suggested "level by item" it could be dropped if the player prefers micro. but then it loses teh damage ofcourse. the current golem sure isnt' an interesting tower.

bad map, put all your etd maps in Warcraft III\Download\ yours is in Warcraft III\Scenario\. and this sure is the wrong thread to discuss a non draft related build^^. The replay: Nice one, you've proven that one element+interest works too, and not only 2 maxed elements+pures.

no range increase should be added, and it should stack with smith.

hehe, i always wondered why they are ld wn ef and not ld wf ne or dw fn el, or the very very best: lf ew dn, but it isnt' very very important. the current topic, slow, is more important . i always doubted kindle towers feelign they might become overpowered

stable damage, but higher movementspeed+lower hook/teleport CD is a neat idea, i like it higher movement speed really is needed, perhaps that can be through the ability, like cisz sais if i understand him correctly.

I got 449 ronnies on the first try, using zealouts and support and no micro after like 50 ronnies. its really messy and not very well played though i leak evil children like 3 times in a row cause i played bad and built zealouts before they could charge up. jacobs challenge 449 zealouts.w3g

posted here. the active golemthread, please dont remove it after b16 even though the thread is named [beta 16] proper understanding getting closer, I'll try to put together some conclusions and replays on everything(and post), because it can really differ between the different slows and with different towers. I wonder if that is necessary, or if we shall just balance them as it "feels like" and compare them ingame on different waves. Are you sure you think such a procedure is necessary?

sure, needs work, . please don't remove this thread when beta 16 threads are moved to achieved reports, because it is an active topic anyway. as for teleport, i don't like that, it doesnt make sence with flesh golem, unless we add a meat hook that (works like links hookshot) hits the ground at up to 1000 range away, and then instead of rolling in the catch, it travels itself to where on the ground it hit, same as blink but much slower and more realistic for a flesh golem. the linkmode doesn't work well imo, neither makes sence.

why is it a problem? if average dmg for a triple is 9k, and golem starts at 8k and lvls up to 10k dmg, where is the problem? it is different from others a bit, but it's rather unique. And having a little stronger endgame at the cost of less interestfarming earlygame, or the risk of getting rushed earlygame, or perhaps a few leaks earlygame. why is that not a working concept? The damage doesn't have to raise by 200% as in early 4.0 betas. i mean you say to bad first and to good later on, i agree its worse earlier and better later, that's the point of the concept, but why is it too strong/weak, where does the imbalance occur?

what was wrong with the old flesh golem, like public beta or w/e it was removed? the one that grows in strength the more damage it deals? it has a unique concept, it sure does. I once again suggest to reinsert it, up the movement speed a bit, replace the xx%bonus damage with 100% chance for 1.xx times normal damage. That is the same as before, but stacking with blacksmith, which was the main reason why it was removed at all. Also - i have figured an idea that does seem easy to implement. Instead of having the ability be a passive ability, it would be an item, and that drops on death(and sell). token/item of lvl xx can be picked up by another fleshgolem to enable selling/rebuilding and selling. (or picked up by builder to enable relocation between the different lands of the maze, area 4 6 -) ofcourse several items don't stack, only the strongest counts. if we want we could make so that nly one token can be carried at a time. these are all the details, no more, and all of it I've seen in several custom maps and think it shouldn't be very hard to code.

/me signs up.

utc+1. 20-23 weekdays. 19-22 in utc. I am home from florida now and should be able to show up if a date and time is set. The problem is that some are beeing like utc+6 and some are utc-6 and some utc+1, but with someone not showing up at every meeting that doesn't mean the meeting doesn't give anything. if the one who is missing reads the chatlogs and comments in club element then all should be fine. for example, we can hold a meeting before holepercent comes back, and could hold one when he is back, don't nessesarily need to wait ofc, because progress can be done anyway. For me, it'd work like any day this week i think. monday tuesday wednesday, should all be fine. Structure. perhaps we should set up a structure of what there is to do and what to be discussed, so that everyone can prepare instead of doing all the thinking right there on time, and also have tested it in advance, and also to during the meetings know where we're attempting to progress so that we can gather together conclusions and know what changes have to be done. For example if we would say lets discuss all single target damage duals on the next meeting. of course new questions and old questions can be raised/reraised.

had a discussion over the irc, and while everyone (afaik) wants them, it seems kara considers adding some. boom boom. Hmm, maybe there was a misunderstanding, or at least yet no big bombs are added, hope we can expect to see some very big bombs anyway its so good that tower hp is defined after how much they cost, that way even attacking towers might be valid to add.