DDRKirby(ISQ)

but since it did not happen in 4.0PB (as far as I've seen), it must have been some difference...so all you have to do (theoretically) is find that and remedy it... ...easier said than done.

but the thought makes me feel all terrible! =P

Overall: -Difficulty is harder now for sure, but a big part of that is simply learning new strategies and what works vs what doesn't. Even playing at 3/6 instead of 4/5 I have only gotten to Ronalds once. Again, this is necessarily due to me being too used to 4.0PB strategies. -Undead backtracking bug seems to be the biggest issue right now =(. -haven't noticed huge changes in elemental HP, but it does in general seem like lvl 2 elementals are much more manageable. Lvl 3 elementals still scare me, but I haven't run into them quite that much. -Splitting the tower query is great! I still spam both of them a lot, but this is much appreciated. -(Research center hotkeys need to be fixed/implemented) -XSM countdown seems to be adequate time now. -Support towers are now just that--support! 4.0PB got us all (or maybe just me) into the mindset where the first thing you do is look at what support triples you can build and make sure you have at least one of each. Looking at those towers (corrosion, muck, voodoo, roots, nova, windstorm) they were all very powerful even when used solo, and retained effectiveness into lategame due to their support buffs/debuffs. Now the situation is different, because support towers no longer take care of anything on their own (well, maybe a few can). The 10% slow is especially noticable here. -I like the fact that wave 13 can be done with EE again now =P Build balance: -Interest is more effective now, and in general I've noticed more games where I've had a crapload of gold lying around. However in general it seems that maybe towers cost too little--Often there is a lot of gold, but not enough room to place towers in good spots, or not enough time to build enough towers fast enough. This is more true for those builds that lack tier 3 "mainstay" damage duals or tier 2 triples. I notice this in particular for lvl 3 element towers--regardless of dps I think (I haven't compared numbers--this is just from feel) that amplified and refined towers are significantly cheaper. This means that when I'm switching to refined fire against nature waves (since it's the best fire damage source I have at the time) I have to build LOTS AND LOTS of them, like covering all of the 6 area. I'd rather only have to build 12 or so... -6-element build has definitely gotten weaker in comparison. While the 6 element build has diversity, it seems like it may lack the raw power/punch of builds that concentrate on building tier2/tier3 towers. Which is kind of the way it should be anyways, so that's good. Duals: Poison The change to water damage is interesting, thought it overlaps somewhat with the ability of Ice. Definitely much improved over 4.0PB, this tower is worth building now! Excellent against undead waves of all kinds (except darkness). Ice Ah, one of the infamous overpowered towers. The concept is really neat, and this is a cool tower to use. With the latest nerf I'm not sure if it's still overpowered or not but it's definitely a good tower. Placement is really tricky, but in general most spots will at least work "okay". Electricity The other overpowered tower...Though maybe not anymore. The range change to 1100 is interesting, and I think aesthetically it makes sense. Placement becomes harder with that change, though... Flame This is becoming underused by me =(. I like the concept, but the fact that it doesn't stack is really a problem because I can't just mass flame towers for a damage source. It's kind of cool that it still works great on a shortpass placement, and i like to use it, but it just never quite seems to get played except fairly early on when I know it'll do significant damage. Gunpowder I'm liking the new gunpowder, it's much more visually exciting =P. Feels as if the additional shrapnel shots are sometimes not doing quite that much though. In my opinion this might need a slight buff, or at least making the shrapnel more useful (not 100% sure how it works so I could be wrong). Long range towers are always misleading in terms of how much damage they do because they never look like they're doing that much, but over time it adds up...so it's difficult to gauge. Still, assuming the shrapnel spreads "outward", and gunpowder logically is almost always placed in the center of the map, the shrapnel doesn't really land in the right places...??? Kindle Changing this to fire damage was a good thing--now I actually have a reason to use it! It's still not a tower that I like, but at least now it sees some play by me from time to time. Hydro No longer indirect slow...but still a neat tower. Having it retarget is nice, I find that it does proc relatively often. Not sure if it's really viable or not lategame because I haven't gotten tier2/3 hydro yet. Mushroom Not sure if I like the range change on this one. It does make it different from magic, but...i don't know. Magic This one is useful again, so the latest buff is much appreciated. Quark The new quark is much much more appreciated than the old one. I liked it a lot more when the firing rate was faster, but I understand that the slower speed is necessary =(. Disease Still very reluctant and afraid to use this one. Before the buff it was terrible and didn't seem to help me much at all. Perhaps it will be better now that it's been buffed, but it suffers from the same problem as flame--you can't mass it as a main damage dealer. Maybe if it did damage based on %, then I would be more inclined to use it, but I don't think that would be balanced. I don't know, I could try using it more... Life Range change on this one is nice, allows it to serve well as a leak-catcher. No real complaints here. Well 200% increased speed for lvl3 well is FAST! you'll want one of these on your pures and other strong towers at all times! Blacksmith (same) Trickery Different from well and blacksmith, but not really that bad of a thing at all. Much trickier to use, and I don't actually use it as a support tower that often at all. I just use it to chainmorph jinx/laser towers and such, which is useful and makes me feel pro =P. I think it's a really neat tower, and now that I can sell clones+originals I can actually use it. heh. Autocast is almost useless in SR though =(. ***Trickery atm can clone clones, this needs to be fixed. Triples: Flamethrower Seems a lot more viable now... Laser Same good old laser, yay! Range of 700 atm. This is one tower where it might actually be MORE effective if the range was reduced to 500! Roots Still a really useful tower... Muck Change to earth damage is interesting, but not actually that major since now it's a support tower and not a damage tower. You CAN still use it for damage now, but chances are you have a better source of earth damage and well/blacksmith/trickery can't buff muck anymore. In a pinch I wouldn't ever hesitate to use it versus light undead waves though. It's now much less strong of a tower overall, since the slow is not as large and the damage doesn't seem as good. Quaker Shorter range is interesting... Zealot Shame that it doesn't fire as fast anymore... Jinx I miss the old jinx very much. =( But this one is cool. Hard to manage well when you have 10 of them, but still okay. It's much more effective at 5 than anywhere else in general...which can be a problem with some setups... Voodoo I've tried using this against water waves and been sorely disappointed. Again, support towers are no longer damage towers as well. This one is really hard to place now because of the 500 range...I'm not sure I'm a big fan of the reduced range... Corrosion Still a great tower, it might just be me but this one is still 4.0PB-ish in that it still seems to do a fairly decent amount of damage... Oblivion Looks much cooler. I've been playing SR and I don't like summoning much so I haven't used it much, but at least it looks cool =P Hail Haven't actually noticed that much difference here, other than the fact that I can chainmorph it now. Flesh Golem Problematic...I'm not sure what I'm supposed to DO with this tower. Obviously you need to use link mode, but should you have 50/50 distribution, or have all but one be in link mode and have one really buff golem? Needs more experimentation. Could possibly use a buff but I'm not sure. Drowning Same old drowning as far as I'm concerned (not a bad thing). Gold I'm less reluctant to use this one now. It can really work against things like light mech waves. Enchantment Not much change here... Polar I think polar seems to debuff a lot more reliably now, which is great! Is it because the ability is linked to the attack now? I can't remember how it works exactly, but in any case this is good. Nova No longer super powerful! Actually this one seems still reasonably powerful when placed right. Windstorm The new tornado is great! Impulse (no real changes noticed) Tidal This is still just fine. The slower firing rate felt really weird at first but it still functions pretty much the same. Tier 2 tidal towers are STRONG when used in moderate sized groupings!

yeah, to solo most of the game with just 2 towers...and here I am losing tons of VHSR games when I am just building so much more Those 2 towers definitely have a neat (overpowered????) synergy though--they cover each other so well! perhaps I am underestimating the strength of tier 3 duals in 14b (and more importantly, not getting to use them in a lot of my SR games due to luck...)...

problem still exists, unfortunately. Just experienced it with the water revenant guys. I also had a Hydra (non-undead) get stuck, but I'm not sure if this is the same issue or not. with the undead bug (water revnants) I was using a lot of muck towers, as well as polar/roots for support.

yay forums back up!

yeah if i update my "guide" i'll let you know so you can update it...

http://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?image=squirtle014qz0.png http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=squirtle018rt7.png http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ivysaur011ri7.png http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ivysaur013ii8.png some images i grabbed once upon a time from a thread on smashboards. forgot exactly how they were captured.

iono...i guess it is kind of nice to have an AoE damage for darkness, but I don't really mind poison being water. in 4.0 PB water really had no "easy" towers--tidal required micro and thinking, drowning i felt like shouldn't really be relied on as a main tower except for early-mid game and perhaps against mech, and ice wasn't a damage tower. hm actually that is a good point. Ice is a pseudo-AoE damage tower now, and poison does the same thing, kind of. forgetting any issues with both of them being overpowered, is it alright for them to be so alike (i feel as if this may have been brought up before)?

imho it SHOULD be possible to beat the game with 2 $$, definitely 1 $. Maybe make interest a tiny bit stronger? =XX from my experience it has been hard to beat the game at all

magic and mushroom are definitely underperforming (in terms of my expectations at least). Don't know about the higher tiers, but i can't even do water waves with magic that I think I should be able to. the only other sources of darkness damage we have (unless i'm forgetting something) are disease (still not really working well in my experience), jinx (tricky to use), and oblivion (micro intensive, can't rebuild). Muck used to be my "go-to" source of darkness damage but since that's earth now, I feel like darkness damage is lacking. The new jinx is somewhat good though, even only using it a little I can tell it's useful.

was the dps of quark changed due to the slower firing rate or does it (theoretically) work out to be the same?

i think for me this would be ideal. but of course, compromises can always be made based on what can and cannot feasibly be done...

can't tell how much you were joking, but to be serious, i was mostly talking about, for example, I'm playing VHSR at 4/5 and i have a bunch of amped earth towers against a light/healing wave. The next wave is Nature so ideally i ctrl+click sell and then rebuild to something other than earth, otherwise I'm going to get owned hard. Except...ctrl+click sell doesn't work because I have trickery towers active which cloned my amped earth, so I have to click, sell...click, sell...click sell....oh wait the next wave is already halfway done gg. but I have a suspicion that you were plain joking, because there is never really any reason to ctrl+click for pures

Remember when we said and then jolin said for me it really is that bad. =( How am I supposed to sell all of my towers, realistically? having to manually select them all is SURELY not the answer.

I totally did not interpret those screenshots correctly.

Yes! It's new!

i've noticed similar things once in a blue moon, like the new flesh golem green "mana burn" link becoming permanent.

yeah i have noticed that with the new quark a lot. I haven't noticed it with zealot quite as much at all, i don't know why. Maybe because by the time I have zealot I either have other slows or it kills things so fast you don't notice. New quark this is definitely noticable though.

i wouldn't mind that much either way, but he has a good point there.

i see what you mean (though I think the design is "nice"), especially about it not "popping out" at you.

or perhaps have it be an option. it seems odd to have an arbitrary choice like that dictate the towers' effectiveness in certain positions.

Lordaeron/USWest here, though i make the foray to the other realms if needed. Have been a little busy with other things atm though.

alternative is to nature-centric, imho.

tsk tsk. i do not like having too many restrictions. -i am totally fine with getting interest at round 50. -the main problem with t2 and t3 elementals show up early is they are (still) too damn hard to kill at that point in the game, even if you are prepared...