Cisz

Good point. Ok - our options: -Find another coder that does it. (Maybe with the "I bet you it's impossible" trick. ) -Find a different tower to replace prism. More options?

Hey, it's working just as intended. Very hard is finally starting to get very hard. Ofc it's still a bit too hard at places, but definately not the standard normal mode like it was in 3.0. Great start.

Oh. Why? Ain't the concept woth the effort?

No worries leksumgnir, we will get this to work. The latest patch can be found here: >> Click me << When you start tft, the current version is shown in the lower right corner of the screen on the main menu. What version do you have now?

I've met K. on the irc a few days ago, and he sounded busy. Still, he should release the fixed undead revival version. Karawasa - you hear me?

Welcome to the board. Custom maps like eletd belong into the "\Maps\Download" folder. Another problem might be, that the map requires a patched installation of tft. Version 1.20e or 1.21 should do the trick, I recommend 1.21 (the latest patch). Does it work now?

Hey noob. Welcome to the club. What server do you play on? The clan is on northrend.

Here is a tournament invite list: hyperprimate good cyberseer jolin012 13est MagicalHacker Cisz Kingzor Those are people that are working on the organising or are likely to win or both. So we should try to fix a date that suits many of those. Did I forget someone?

Try this: >> Replay <<

That option would scale badly with special abilities. Slow? Armour reduction? Disable?

I'm against that. I want this map to become more challenging for experienced players, so I don't like automatic towers. (There once was a game called dungeon keeper, that would play itself completely alone if you'd turn on the computer assistant. Horrible..) Also, there are ways to use frost towers, so they freeze only or mostly unfrosted units without any micro at all. Proper placement is enough for that.

The way you put it, it really sounds like an improvement.

You can't do that in multiplayer I assume? Or in under 35 minutes? And alloy w/o support wont give you a lot of ronalds either. Maybe ldwf-n isn't that bad after all.

Ok - now I want to know how. Don't tell me, I want to think about this. Hmm.

Ok. That's an unnecessary restriction. Nothing will change if this wasn't the case, it's only harder to implement multibuffs on a tower. Unnecessary restriction, and hard to implement. Someone told me that this would require to have extra towers, to represent the copies. So we would need 2 extra towers for all towers on the map (100% doesn't need a different tower)? And that was too much work? So Karawasa wouldn't do it that way? Ok. Not required. Only extra coding, w/o any usefull effect. If that would work, it would be really nice. Agreed. And agreed to the rest as well. If that cloned tower with % damage is possible, I don't need to calculate anything. So I'll wait with that till I know it's actually necessary.

Ok, let's work on the trickery tower. The tower is meant to be the following: I'ts one of three towers that are meant to greatly boost your build (well, blacksmith, trickery). Those towers provide are to provide a % bonus to your entire dmg output. Well gives extra % speed, blacksmith extra % dmg, and trickery is meant to give extra % towers. The bonus of well is 25%/50%/100% right now (and it might get higher in the later stages of ballancing), and that's the reference for what trickery is meant to do. It should provide you with 25%/50%/100% extra towers. As it is now, you build support and one dmg tower and mass trickery. As a result that should give you an effective 125%/150%/200% of dmg output. So it should be cheaper to mass trickery and copy one damager than to mass the damager itself. Trickery requires micro, so it should be a bit better than 25%/50%/100% to reflect this. The damage output of trickery is a part of this calculation, so all trickery builds are light dmg heavy for now and if trickery has a low dmg/gold itself, it needs to give extra towers to compensate this. All of this means, that one trickery tower should be able to provide a copy of a tower 25% of the time, assuming trickeries own attack would have the dmg/gold ratio of a dmg tower. If trickery is weaker than that, the provided extra towers will have to be more. So trickery would give a copy for X seconds with 4*X seconds recycle, or maybe a bit better (3.27*X seconds recycle or whatever) if the dmg of trickery is low. This leads to the problem of waiting times between firing. If the tower can idle a lot between waves, the effective extra towers go up. The trickeries could accumulate uncast abilities to fire them after a prolonged extra time. This could be achieved by playing a very slow build sinlgeplayer. This problem gets worse, the longer X is. If, for example, the tower can create an extra tower for 15 seconds every 60 seconds, a player that can delay the next wave for 45 seconds, can effectively get +100% towers for 15 seconds every wave. If the times are reduced to, say, an extra tower for 4 seconds every 16 seconds, trickery also gives +100% towers, but only for 4 seconds, which is well below the time it takes to clear a wave, and every level will take several castings of the duplicate ability. Imo the time the copy lasts has to be short enough to run out ~2 times or more during one firing period. Basically this is the same problem as with the 3.0 magic and tidal. Those towers get worse if played on a fast placement, as they have a bit of extra fire power after a period of recovering, so they are less effective on fast paced multiplayer games. Rage in 4.0 also suffers from this. My suggestion for trickery is: Closely examine the dmg/gold of trickery. Give the tower the ability to create a tower for X seconds with X < firing time of a wave, with a recycling time that is set to make the resulting combined dmg of the trickeries, the created copies and the original damage tower worth a bit more (to compenstae for micro) than 125% of the dmg/gold of a damage tower. The problem is: The overall dmg/gold of a trickery build greatly changes with the level, cost, and dmg/gold of the replicated dmg tower and the number of trickeries used. I'm working on a calc sheet to provide data for different scenarios. > To be continued. <

I'm not really suposed to tell you something. Maybe this much:

Let me list the relevant data: There are fewer sinlge target slows than in 3.0 (but 4 aoe slows as allways). And the slowing effect of all towers has be reduced. Magic will be a slowing tower, but is unfinished yet. Once magic is in, there is no build without a slowing tower. Here is a list of all 4-element builds and the number of slows they have (* has magic and is missing one so far): No. Slows Elements 1 3* ldwf 2 1 ldwn 3 4 ldwe 4 3* ldfn 5 1* ldfe 6 1 ldne 7 4 lwfn 8 4 lwfe 9 3 lwne 10 2 lfne 11 2* dwfn 12 3* dwfe 13 3 dwne 14 3* dfne 15 2 wfne I played lwfn a lot (4 slows), so I wouldn't know yet. Edit - All builds with only one slow are trickery builds, and that tower is still pretty unfinished.

A single target tower normally isn't fast enough, so I get this when I use strong splash.

This is very possible to happen multiplayer, and it did. Read more.

You went to #eletd on gamesurge? Or on quakenet? We are on gamesurge. irc://irc.gamesurge.net/eletd

Not as bad as it was. I have a much bigger kill zone and splash is far less rewarding in 4.0. The increase of the minimum speed did wonders here. Edit - it seems the tidals do composite dmg with their special attack.

Finally, after so many tries, I finished the 4.0b4 on vh pick without leaking. I had a ronald kill count of 3. The build was lwfn. Nova, windstorm, a bit of ice, impulse, well, tidal. Pure water to kill wave 55, pure fire to kill 58. I had two flames on lv2 in the end, but doubt they made any difference. The elemental catch after 10 went bad, and some hasty arrow massing saved me just in time. >> Replay lwfn << Observations: -The HP increase for elementals is really working imo. I have problems getting the level 1 elemental at wave 21. -The undead bug is annoying. Very. -The new cost system leads to fewer towers. Maybe the elemental towers should be a bit cheaper and weaker dmg wise? Dunno what to think yet. -Electricity can solo early on. Looks like a hefty dmg dealer. -Impulse can do wonders if microed. Tidal can do wonders if microed. -Mechanical, healing and undead are tough, but in a different way. Healing might be the hardest, as there is no easy way out. You need the dmg and you need it quick. Maybe fewer towers with higher dmg are the sollution for a player. Undead highly favors slpash. You don't have to hurry here, as they don't regenerate. Mech tends to leak, as some of them allways are shielded, so long range or long pass can help to get the remaining, but splash helps a lot too. Fast waves are harder than non-fast waves, but most of the time they didn't scare me nearly as much as the other 3. Placement: Here's a screen from wave 55, I just finished the pure water at 5, right besides the supernova, monsoon and tsunami. Thanks to karawasa for the great idea to play tidal on long pass. The waterfall can speed everything. The velocity has 4 attack zones on long range: between 7 and 5, under 5, under 3 and over 9 if I am in very deep trouble. Not on screen are two freezing, one at 9 and 3 each, placed as I used to play poison in 3.0 (far into the corner). They help catching mechs on the run.

I wouldn't mind the option to set the tower to autocast, as long as I can turn it off. The tower is pretty much useless on autocast imo.

If the player is on random mode, all towers sell at 100%. And arrows and cannons allways sell at 100%.