holepercent

i'm pretty sure there are many possible permutations and combinations to having the damage towers equal in elemental damage.. but what about when combined with the support towers? have to consider the overall elemental damage scheme.. from what i see it's pretty balanced now and we wouldn't want to make major changes to the elemental damage types or even tower reshuffling for this upcoming 4.0 release. 3-element builds aren't really the focus.. i don't think all 3-element builds are playable.. well.. our aim in map balance is to balance 4-5-6 element builds. so i'm not really sure if that's the way to go.. although with that balance, 4 element builds should have some form of balance as well as adding one element will add to the 3-element build a mix of damage types (as it can be considered as overlapping 3-element builds with 2 common elements). as you already mentioned, it may well end up that every build is identical just different tower names.. Not so likely as most duals are 'different' and 'unique' in some ways.. have you tried if it's possible to have the duals with different damage types and the resulting triple the 3rd (with towers switching elements if needed) ?

not really that similar.. ice hits creeps unevenly while poison deals its damage evenly to all creeps in range.. but dark appears to lack a decent damage dealer that requires (little) micro to use. considering magic is underpowered at the moment.. i'll see the balance changes if i shift poison to dark..

for elemental damage types: http://www.eletd.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=971 it appears that most of the elemental damage types overall and for 4-element builds is almost balanced.. any changes will probably affect the balance..

it's in the dev team forums.. since you're already beta tester, you should apply for dev team as well..

first tier2 elemental at 25 makes more sense.. we've spent so much time balancing 4-5-6 element builds. Key balance aim was to ensure all 4-5-6 builds are playable. 3-element builds aren't exactly playable all the time. try playing L$D$LED or any permutation of that.. although in (semi-)competitive, -vhsr games, the aim is more to outlast opponents than complete the game, about making the best use of the set.. $ or $$ should be playable. it's more of the timing.. when you're struggling, with say bad opening elements, and expect a element to boost the build you get interest instead. 2 $$ can be pushing it at times.. It seems that the game likes to randOOm me (kaini, jolin012) LD$$(E) builds... and yes... it's so difficult to play to wave 50 now.. post 4.0pb is like a different game again..

Tower list updated for b13c. update: partial b14b analysis added

nice replay.. if only you didn't leak.. pretty interesting. the build is this strong. well.. the game isn't really balanced for 3-element builds but (some) of them are doable.. the main balance is for 4-5-6 element builds. upgrades of gunpowder are strong although tier1 gunpowder is somewhat weak.. the splash radius increases with upgrades.. in private 4.0 beta, muck has been nerfed and gunpowder has been changed totally. Hydro also has the ability changed.

my personal tower list up in build project thread.

nice list.. i have some doubts of which some are already mentioned... but most of it is 'correct'.. should be able to get my personal list out this weekend..

composite is balanced at 75%.. it requires some extra considerations but it's not too difficult.. Also i think we're used to it and have considered the 75% when planning builds.. changes to healing and for some players fast are ... well.. overpowered? then again, given time, i guess we will eventually adjust our builds for them..

not to mention interest farming (in random).. between the 2 i'll definately use poison .. and also considering whether slowing is in play.. although as shown in the replay, poison is overpowered even without slowing..

yes.. in extreme mode, if you build at VI, come second pass, the creeps are back to full health including those that left the first pass kill zone with 10% hp.. overpowered.. fast is not as much a problem as healing.. but the wave can be overpowered when the defense is weaker, more so when randOOmed.. but if i'm not wrong 1.5% healing can't be programmed or something..

seconded.. i'm sure the source has a lot more fun and interesting smilies/icons/animated gif use it when you use earth towers vs healing nature.. or selling all your towers by mistake.. heh..

haven't encountered any problems with gamesurge.. i've been online 24/7 for the last few days with no disconnects

Each tower will be strong in the right situation.. One aim of game balance is that all towers are viable in different scenerios and no tower is 'useless' or overpowered that it clears all waves.

poison wins. you can see in that game i'm clearing the waves faster with poison compared to kaini using the ice build..

or you'll have to sell in 2 groups.. the real towers and the clones. so if you double click a real tower all the real towers are selected and sold for their normal value. if you do so on a clone all clones are selected and sold for 0 gold.. maybe after all it's a joke with the pures.. but for other towers it can be a problem.. especially in random chaos mode with the usual (frentic) tower switching..

watch the replay.. wave 52 with poison as main damage without aoe slows whole game. even against weakness it's overpowered.. eletd_beta_180_pri_52.w3g

my guide is a big work-in-progress.. much of it is incomplete.. at the moment only the build design guide is somewhat complete for 4.0pb. it's a long term project for the official 4.0 release.. i stopped the replay analysis as a good number of the towers are being changed/remade/rebalaced. about networth: It's the total 'value' of your towers. The gold you would get back if you sold all your towers in play and any unspent gold. Only (elemental) arrows and cannons sell for 100%. Elemental towers sell for 75% if you're on pick. In random mode, all towers sell for 100%. However, it's not really a good measure of anything. In VE, less towers are needed and thus higher networths are possible compared to VH. Networth also depends on interest farming skills. Whether the player picks extra investements and actively sells and rebuilds towers on the interests.

The build project - to complete all 4-5-6 element builds mode: VH AP (X)SM All games will be played at III or faster. Draft builds for final build project will be posted in this thread. Build preliminaries.. Aoe slows are 10% now. The support towers can't really be played as damage towers. The focus should be on the damage towers. Prepare well for the elementals, single-target towers needed. Build list (classified into AOE slows available) Roots: DNEF - download/file.php?id=301 DNEL - download/file.php?id=385 Muck: DWEF - download/file.php?id=296 DWEL - download/file.php?id=401 Nova: LFNE - download/file.php?id=326 LFND - download/file.php?id=342 Windstorm: LWFE - download/file.php?id=339 LWFD - download/file.php?id=310 Roots and muck: DNEW - download/file.php?id=292 LDWNE DWFNE Nova and windstorm: LFNW - download/file.php?id=305 LDWFN LWFNE Windstorm and muck: LDWFE Nova and roots: LDFNE roots and muck and nova and winstorm: LDWFNE - download/file.php?id=483 Non-slowing: LDWN - download/file.php?id=372 LDFE - download/file.php?id=329 LWNE - download/file.php?id=343 DWFN - download/file.php?id=330 WFNE - download/file.php?id=331

Tower analysis b13b by holepercent Generally, the duals are more viable now. Support triples are much weaker and are more accurately supporters rather than doing the damage themselves. Damage towers see more play. Changes to the tower range are yet to be fully discovered although some obvious ones are picked up. 1100 range is not as easy to master as some may think. It appears that all 1100 range towers would need some damage nerf. Reference is taken with respect to public beta or first version of remade towers. Potential nerfs LN Life. 1100 range here. With the range, the damage should be lower. Some games, a single life tower is used to catch leaks (placed at bottom right V), gaining a decent number of lives in the process. This shouldn't be a general use tower, one that can be put into play easily and have the ability do its stuff. DFE Flamethrower. In chaos mode, it is possible to chain explode entire nature waves. Strong against other waves, often killing multiple creeps with chain reaction. Probably needs a significant damage nerf or chain reaction needs to be looked at. LW Ice. Still stronger than the other duals. perhaps a even slower attack speed if the spell has to remain as it is. The end explosion hasn't been fully exploited by any player yet.. DWF Corrosion The tower has too much damage compared to enchantment. Balanced DF Magic and NE Mushroom. Doesn't compare with the other duals. Has difficulty clearing even the 200% damage waves. (the old magic was much better but unfortunately doesn't balance with well smith.) b14b: Magic is a pretty strong tower now more so against mech, elementals and composite. Mushroom, 1100 range. Semi-long range with decent damage. Consider both magic and mushroom balanced. DW Poison. This is one tower with too much damage. Doesn't even require slowing to be overpowered. Watch the replay. b14b. Damage nerfed. This should be closer to balanced. DE Gunpowder. Consider balanced. Better than the first version but not exactly a strong leak catcher due to wasted shots. Long-range may be too slow in multiplayer. Could do with a slight damage buff. WF Kindle. Consider balanced. WN Well and FE Blacksmith. Works with all damage towers except the non-support towers, 3+8. However, on certain towers, one buff is stronger. Quark as an example. Smith gives 200% dps increase. Well gives 200% dps increase AND the bonus damage maxes out faster. FN Flame. Tower is strong but demands placement to maximise the effect. Each creep can only be targetted once, takes full advantage of the short-pass placement. However, it is unlike to receive the well smith buffs at that placement.. WE Hydro. Consider balanced but could do with maybe a slight damage buff on the tower's attack. WFN Impulse. Consider balanced. Micro will increase the strength of the tower. LFE Gold. Consider balanced. At 1100 range, it is semi-mapwide while not having too high damage. Used in random mode against light waves for some extra gold. LDF Jinx. This can be a strong tower with constant adjustments of the range. 400 minimum range would be better as 500 range at some placements can be too big. b14b: range changed. Consider balanced. DFN Voodoo LWE Polar. Consider balanced LWF Windstorm LFN Nova DWE Muck DNE Roots. Consider balanced. Among the 4, roots and muck are easier to use. Nova as a long-pass tower. Windstorm feels the weaker among the 4, resulting in less clumping compared to the rest of the aoe slows. LDW Hail. Feels weak against non-darkness waves. This could do with a damage buff. b14b: Decent damage tower. Consider balanced. FNE Quaker. The range and placement is so limited. Higher damage needed to compensate for the limited placement to be decent. Can only be considered for use against light waves now. b14b: The higher chance for the ability to trigger and increased damage compensates for the limited range. Strong if the ability triggers often. More testing would tell if a slight nerf would be needed. Potential buffs LE Quark. Tower charges up too slowly. Ineffective on long-pass while at 2-pass placements, the damage bonus resets too quickly. This needs a major buff to be comparable to the other duals. DN Corpse explosion. The only tower that has no effect with no other towers in play. Needs a significant damage boost to even see play. Tower should deal some physical damage. WFE Zealot. Feels kind of weak.. or maybe the original was too strong. Maybe a slight damage buff. LWN Tidal. Strong in the early-mid game, goes down in the endgame. Perhaps a damage buff. A stronger tier2 would be more viable in the endgame. LDE Laser. Decent but could do with a damage buff. Micro by top spam can be an option to allow the tower to retarget the closest creeps. LNE Enchantment. This could do with a damage buff, given the support strength is weakened. Consider that enchantment is much weaker than corrosion in damage although it is much stronger against elementals than corrosion. Needs further testing LD Trickery. I haven't really tested this out fully. depends on how the trickery well/trickery smith/well smith builds fare against each other. LF Electricity. 1100 range isn't easy to master. It's neither map-wide nor strictly two-pass. A standard two-pass such as IV or III doesn't make full use of the range. However, it is also difficult to place at V with some areas not covered. Electricity has bounce damage. It is not strong against single creeps and doesn't benefit from slowing. Perhaps a nerf or buff could be in order. At the same time, the tower shouldn't be too strong as to one-pass waves easily but not so weak as to be not worth building. WNE Flesh Golem. Needs testing and the ability in the tooltip is perhaps too wordy and needs to be simplified somehow... DWN Drowning. Needs more testing. I never liked this tower... LDN Oblivion. Needs more testing. Too much mirco involved. Update log 300808 b13b tower analysis released 130908 Partial update for b14b

confirmed.. like extreme mode without the speed boost on the creeps..

Building and selling is called interest farming. Every 15sec, you get 2% (or more if you spent your lumber on increasing interest rate) extra gold added to whatever unspent gold you have. The timer is in the board. When the timer is close to 0, the player sells all the towers and rebuilds immediately after the extra gold (interest) is added. This is done in the early game as well as in random mode (where all towers sell for 100% as opposed to pick where elemental towers sell for 75%). You'll have extra gold as a result. As such, elemental towers are built much later in the game. Playing the game is about having a mix of towers. In 4.0pb, you'll need a combination of slow, armour reduction, tower amplification and damage towers. click the link in my signature for a guide on build design (scroll down to the build design guide).

mirage tower on autocast doesn't copy towers.. trickery does..

maybe reduce the tower range and the range of the helix. the tower hits too many creeps in each attack. either it spreads a small damage over a large number of creeps or a moderate damage over like 2-3 creeps at most. i would prefer the second option. the first option will result in the damage appearing to be too little although it plays out balanced.. or a slower attack speed. a slower attack speed such that there is a pause between each attack. a 1.5 attack speed wouldn't feel like it's 1.5 due to the time for the attack animation to play.