[New Command] My Damage Types

[jolin012]

This is another idea that has popped up - not to be considered implemented now, but to be looked back at after the release of 4.0.

I observed when my father played his maybe 5th game of etd. When he died at wave 49 darkness and I asked him why he died, he had no idea. he had 2 vapor towers one at 5 one at 1, 2 poison towers one at 2 one at 5, some fire arrow towers at 6, some super arrows at 1 some basic arrows at 4, and a magic tower at 9. I told him that 75% of his defence was based on water. with almost 50 towers in play it was understandable that he couldn't keep track of all towers nor the cost of them. so he had no idea that 75% was water. He suggested some way to see how much dmg you had of each damagetype, maybe bars or something. I said bars is probably not possible, but % numbers with colors should be if you input a command.

What say ya?

Example:

I type -damagetypes

The game tells me this:

Your Defense has

20% Composite Damage

24% Light Damage

7% Darkness Damage

37% Water Damage

12% Fire Damage

0% Nature Damage

0% Earth damage

Your Defense Deals

84% Damage against Composite creeps

97% Damage against Light creeps

106% Damage against Darkness creeps

101% Damage against Water creeps

137% Damage against Fire creeps

106% Damage against Nature creeps

88% Damage against Earth creeps

[dvdlesher]

Wow, nice idea, although Karawasa will have to code it pretty hard

[holepercent]

nice but how to do the calculation?

absolute number of towers of a particular damage type doesn't really reflect the actual strength of the defense. 48 elemental arrows would mess up the percentage..

% damage dealt over time probably is better.. the duration of time would matter and whether the entire defense is taken into account or a short period where creeps are not in range of some towers and therefore not taken into account in the calculation.. or even long range towers..

[Karawasa]

nice but how to do the calculation?

[Kaini]

nice but how to do the calculation?

Well I would have an idea but Karawasa would hate me for that, cause I mess up everything.

Instead of saving the damage of towers in some Jass constants, save the spell damage in the attack power.

For example the Voodoo-Tower (has got 1 damage at the moment) gets 1000 attack damage and a jass trigger that prevents dealing it if the tower attacks but triggers the spell witch uses the attack damage value.

To make confusion perfect, here a small pseudo code piece:

----

Unit Voodoo-Tower attacks

----

----

stop_attack( get_triggering_unit(  ) )

new_super_cool_voodoo_effect( ... )

deal_damage_in_radius( get_actual_attack_strength(  get_triggering_unit(  ) ) )

destroy_super_cool_voodoo_effect( ... )

That would simplify the Backsmish-Towers powerup and the Well-Towers speedup.

And to calculate the damage type percents simply add all attacks...

[jolin012]

oops, forgot to include that part x)

Since it is important that the output of this command is always up to date, it can not be that it calculates how much damage every tower has dealt so far, or last wave, cause you should be able to add a tower and before it even attacked know if you're having a rather balanced defense.

So for this to be possible I must as a few things. is it possible in some way to make the game count which towers you currently have in play?

if so, it could take those towers's damage. (count all dmg duals tier 1 as X1 X2 and X3(tier 1, 2 and 3) damage, except maybe life tower, and all dmg triples' damage as Y1 and Y2 except gold tower. count all Singles' dmg as Z1 Z2 Z3 Z4 Z5, periodic being Z5 too).

the towers' dmg would be multiplied by the support triples in play and by the support effects currently on them (fire up, spring forward and i have been cloned, unless clones themselves can be counted). and - counted together. the % bit should be very easy.

pls inform you if this post is hard to follow and I'll give you an example. hope it's possible to code. i guess the "count all towers in your maze and their status(buffed or not)" is the hardest bit...

[Kaini]

oops, forgot to include that part x)

Since it is important that the output of this command is always up to date, it can not be that it calculates how much damage every tower has dealt so far, or last wave, cause you should be able to add a tower and before it even attacked know if you're having a rather balanced defense.

So for this to be possible I must as a few things. is it possible in some way to make the game count which towers you currently have in play?

if so, it could take those towers's damage. (count all dmg duals tier 1 as X1 X2 and X3(tier 1, 2 and 3) damage, except maybe life tower, and all dmg triples' damage as Y1 and Y2 except gold tower. count all Singles' dmg as Z1 Z2 Z3 Z4 Z5, periodic being Z5 too).

the towers' dmg would be multiplied by the support triples in play and by the support effects currently on them (fire up, spring forward and i have been cloned, unless clones themselves can be counted). and - counted together. the % bit should be very easy.

pls inform you if this post is hard to follow and I'll give you an example. hope it's possible to code. i guess the "count all towers in your maze and their status(buffed or not)" is the hardest bit...

First I think the status is not very relevant because it is only over a time. With my "solution" the status would be included btw.

But there is another problem: What to do about the attack speed. Water damage for example will be always very small

[holepercent]

could always take damage per second of a tower.. for things like impulse and laser take the average.. it's a compromise solution but at least the result would be a somewhat average of the defense..

[jolin012]

water damage would be calced exactly the same as darkness tower. since - All tier 1 single element towers are assumed to deal Z1 damage. maybe 120 damage(per creep or per sec or w/e). I honestly don't like the idea of giving oblivion teh looks of dealing 1000 damage.. since it doesn't deal that ppl would think it does both the dmg and summons drakes.

Since it is possible to count all towers for networth thing, and recognize them as different values - it should be possible to make the game count the towers and remember them as different damages and attacktypes, (not the damages that they actually have like not oblivion 1-1. oblivion for example should be rememberd as maybe "darkness 8000". or powered up "darkness 8000*1.15")

[echinodermata]

forget calculating relative power in game. just assume all towers are perfectly balanced the way they should be. then assign each tower a point value according to the power it theoretically should have (based on single/dual/triple and tier).

edit: lulz this is kinda what jolin012 already said

if so, it could take those towers's damage. (count all dmg duals tier 1 as X1 X2 and X3(tier 1, 2 and 3) damage, except maybe life tower, and all dmg triples' damage as Y1 and Y2 except gold tower. count all Singles' dmg as Z1 Z2 Z3 Z4 Z5, periodic being Z5 too).

i think we should just ignore the effects of support towers because there's absolutely no way we can reflect this.

[Twilice]

I think it would be very hard to calculate how much you deal each level, just think about all the arrow cannons...

In my oppinion it would be easyer to count in one of theese ways,

Number of Towers per element

% of towers per element

Count gold per element. (example 2000 gold darkness 500 gold earth)

Somehow also count avarage tier somehow:

3000 gold darkness avarage tier 1.25 (3 dual 1 and a tripple 1)

500 gold water avarage tier 1 (1 dual)

each mark dual each stage, elemental arrows, tripples each stage have their own "tier" mark.

This is just an example.

[Karawasa]

So far the best idea in my opinion would be to have a table that has predefined values for each tower. Values would reflect perfect balance. Values would of course be damage or damage per second. Upon execution of command, each tower is counted with the predefined value being used in its place.

[jolin012]

Values would of course be damage or damage per second.

yep. dmg per creep or dmg per second or dmg per hour - it doesn't matter since we're only comparing towers to other towers, it's the relation between the values of each tower(or rather, group of towers since eg poison and vapor count as same) that matters.

And Yes - since this is an overview supposed to be rather accurate, assumed perfect balance (except maybe gold and life in terms of dmg) is what we would do. but I think somehow boost has to be included.

if you have 2 enchantment towers tier 2 (30+30=60k dmg) nature damage, and 1 tidal an tower tier 2 (40k dmg) and a well tower tier 3 (25kdmg) it will without boosts seem like both eles have 60k dmg, while in fact, water has 40*3+25=145k dmg, since tidal can be buffed by well t3 but not enchantment.

Everybody can agree that support duals does make a difference the problem is how for the game to calculate it...

is it possible to have the game check if towers are buffed when it counts the towers?

[Karawasa]

Bump.

[jolin012]

so - kara, on this one I believe the thinking is finished - can you tell us how hard/how much work the implementing of it would be?

[Karawasa]

Good question, I suspect it won't be too bad. I'll find out tonight or tomorrow.

[Cisz]

An easy version could be to give each dmg tower type a point value, and add those up, completely ignoring support (as it should affect all of them equally).

[jolin012]

support duals don't support support towers equally to damage towers.

[ImmolatusBurn]

I'm working on implementing a system to do this.

[jolin012]

cool

should imo replace the element query button, since that one is not very useful, you have the trophies up right already. the element query icon should work fine with damage type check too.

[Guest Void]

YES.

[Karawasa]

Any new thoughts on this? ImmolatusBurn is back working on this system so now is as great a time as ever.