IRC Meetings

[jolin012]

What we currently need mostly now, as i guess everyone knows is first of all individual tower balance. And I guess we all have gathered oppinions of most towers now, (perhaps not a new opinion of those that changed in 15b). But how to discuss and reach something that we can agree upon.

Currently, I for example posted the ones i felt needed buff/nerf, and everyone don't even comment in the thread, and half of them I guess you just think "Oh, I don't think it is as bad as he thinks, i think it only needs a 20%buff while he sais 40%", and don't bother to post. Thats true for me too. Why? because It takes alot to explain and comment and discuss every individual tower on the forums. It just can't be done without spending a vast amount of time before even understanding each other. We must discuss in the IRC.

I have for example tried to find Karawasa in the IRC for some time to discuss things, but I didn't speak to him for like a mounth. Due to international timezones we should set dates to have meetings, not that every beta leader is forced to go there that time, but so that we know that the others are there. With arranged meetings we could discuss individual towers together and find the balance that we agrees to test on alot easier, and that way, get done a lot faster. Because i think IRC is a very effective way to express balance thoughts.

Agreed? Thoughts?

[holepercent]

IRC is good to discuss balance as it's easier to defend points and raise examples clarify points of view.. the main issue is meeting up due to international timezones..

large walls of balance text are not processed well by reading the posts... full tower lists take a long time to prepare and are not really read, processed and the balance changes made. and few if any actually post counter-arguments..

individual tower balance is difficult to put into a post, covering all play situations. anything more than a short summary would not be read by almost all. at least in irc one situation can be raised, point defended then move on to cover another aspect.

and my summoning of a certain player usually fails..

[Cisz]

Trillian is refusing to let me in the channel for 2 days, otherwise I agree with jolin.

[Karawasa]

I'm glad to see this idea again. The points brought up are quite valid, and if we can organize regular meetings our productivity will increase substantially.

So perhaps everyone should start off by posting a few time periods (including zone of course) that they would normally be free in.

US Central Time Zone:

Day

M+W: 11:00AM - 1:00PM

F: 11:00AM - 1:30PM

T+TH: 12:00PM - 3:00PM

I can also come on during the evening/night sometimes, although not so much on the weekends.

[holepercent]

GMT +8

weekdays: 1800 to 2200

weekends: i stay in IRC 24/7..

most of my balance stuff is all in my build project thread.. for those who review the full tower lists and the replays.. and no one apart from cisz has commented on the replays.. of all the misplays..

[Kaini]

Weekends I am most of the time here.

Weekdays: Monday ~17:30; Tuesday ~18:30, Wednesday ~14:30, Thursday ~16:30, Friday ~15:30

most time until ~22:00

In March till October that is in GTM+2 in Winter GTM+1 (Daylight saving...)

I convertet all the times in UTC (+/-0) now:

Karawasa (in UTC-6)

Monday: 17:00(11:00)-19:00(13:00)

Tuesday: 18:00(12:00)-21:00(15:00)

Wednesday: 17:00(11:00)-19:00(13:00)

Thursday: 18:00(12:00)-21:00(15:00)

Friday: 17:00(11:00)-19:30(13:30)

Saturday: ?

Sunday: ?

Holepercent (in UTC+8)

Monday: 10:00(18:00)-14:00(22:00)

Tuesday: 10:00(18:00)-14:00(22:00)

Wednesday: 10:00(18:00)-14:00(22:00)

Thursday: 10:00(18:00)-14:00(22:00)

Friday: 10:00(18:00)-14:00(22:00)

Saturday: always ?

Sunday: always ?

Kaini (in UTC+1/UTC+2 (circa April to October))

Monday: 16:30/15:30(17:30)-21:00/20:00(22:00)

Tuesday: 17:30/16:30(18:30)-21:00/20:00(22:00)

Wednesday: 13:30/12:30(14:30)-21:00/20:00(22:00)

Thursday: 15:30/14:30(16:30)-21:00/20:00(22:00)

Friday: 14:30/13:30(15:30)-23:00/22:00(0:00)

Saturday: around 8:00/7:00(9:00)-23:00/22:00(0:00)

Sunday: around 8:00/7:00(9:00)-21:00/20:00(22:00)

[Karawasa]

Bump! Let's make this happen. I'd like to have a meeting with all active leaders regarding the state of balance. Can we shoot to make this happen within a week, preferably sooner?

You may have noticed the news update on the site. I am aiming for a November release for 4.0. I feel enough time has passed, too much time in fact. The release does not have to be perfect, we can do 4.1, 4.2...etc. much more rapidly.

I don't think we are that far off to be honest. There are some balance issues to resolve, a couple of outstanding bugs, and a few cosmetic issues. With good and steady input regarding these end stage items I think a mid November release is reasonable.

We are here again, the "big push" so to speak. Hopefully this shall be our last one, until SC2...

[holepercent]

i'll be out of town for a week for a short vacation starting tomorrow.. and probably wouldn't have access to the IRC..

the replays will tell my part of the balance then..

[dvdlesher]

Well... Usually I go online quite randomly, whenever I like it

But, for this special occasion, my assured time to go online is...

GMT +7 (On my time zone)

-Weekdays is 19.00-21.30

-Weekend is unknown, because my schedule on weekend never stays the same

So, according to UTC:

-Weekdays is 12.00-14.30

-Weekend is unknown

[Twilice]

usually easyer for me to find a date then to set a date.

Since I got parents.. and different amount of homework different days.

But about everyday from 17:00-21:00 (16:00-22:00 on mondays)

This is utc +1 I think now.

[jolin012]

utc+1.

20-23 weekdays.

19-22 in utc.

I am home from florida now and should be able to show up if a date and time is set. The problem is that some are beeing like utc+6 and some are utc-6 and some utc+1, but with someone not showing up at every meeting that doesn't mean the meeting doesn't give anything. if the one who is missing reads the chatlogs and comments in club element then all should be fine. for example, we can hold a meeting before holepercent comes back, and could hold one when he is back, don't nessesarily need to wait ofc, because progress can be done anyway.

For me, it'd work like any day this week i think. monday tuesday wednesday, should all be fine.

Structure.

perhaps we should set up a structure of what there is to do and what to be discussed, so that everyone can prepare instead of doing all the thinking right there on time, and also have tested it in advance, and also to during the meetings know where we're attempting to progress so that we can gather together conclusions and know what changes have to be done. For example if we would say lets discuss all single target damage duals on the next meeting. of course new questions and old questions can be raised/reraised.

[Cisz]

I can usually be online around gmt+1 6pm-11pm, most days more, some days less.

Things to do from my point of view:

-Golem, imo does not work yet, like "not work at all". Maybe add teleport, or a serious movespeed boost?

-Resolve or accept the slow/st issue. At least get a proper understanding of what this means to st.

-Go over all the towers in one list, to assign to each one a dmg/sec/$ value it should have, and test if it actually does this. That is: Plan a dmg/sec/$ = X for ice. Calculate the needed dmg Y that we expect will actually result in X dmg/sec/$. Give ice dmg value Y, make a version with damage value Y and test if the resulting X is what is should be. Do that for all towers.

[jolin012]

-Golem, imo does not work yet, like "not work at all". Maybe add teleport, or a serious movespeed boost?

posted here. the active golemthread, please dont remove it after b16 even though the thread is named [beta 16]

-Resolve or accept the slow/st issue. At least get a proper understanding of what this means to st.

proper understanding getting closer, I'll try to put together some conclusions and replays on everything(and post), because it can really differ between the different slows and with different towers.

-Go over all the towers in one list, to assign to each one a dmg/sec/$ value it should have, and test if it actually does this. That is: Plan a dmg/sec/$ = X for ice. Calculate the needed dmg Y that we expect will actually result in X dmg/sec/$. Give ice dmg value Y, make a version with damage value Y and test if the resulting X is what is should be. Do that for all towers.

I wonder if that is necessary, or if we shall just balance them as it "feels like" and compare them ingame on different waves. Are you sure you think such a procedure is necessary?

[Cisz]

We will have to do a tower by tower analysis at some point anyway. We won't be able to properly ballance this thing without even knowing what ammount of dmg the towers actually do (that is by testing them, not just reading the stats).

Maybe the st/slow issue made me afraid that there is more lurking outside. Maybe we lose slow or st. Or the dmg type distribution could invalidate the elements for support duals. I remember arguing with MrChak, where I wanted to go with ld, wf, en, but he said "ld, ef, nw will work, what can possibly go wrong". Maybe it goes wrong. That could lead to either a map slightly of ballance, or a total redesign for like 30% of the towers.

I'm scared, I want data.

[jolin012]

hehe, i always wondered why they are ld wn ef and not ld wf ne or dw fn el, or the very very best: lf ew dn, but it isnt' very very important. the current topic, slow, is more important . i always doubted kindle towers feelign they might become overpowered

[holepercent]

UPDATE: i'm returned from vacation.. so set the date and time and hopefully i can make it (mainly due to timezones).. like sat/sun 2hrs before my usual 'out for the night'.. then i sort of make my point then the discussion continues from there..

[jolin012]

an expressed in UTC - when would that be?

[Karawasa]

Glad to hear you're back. I too would be interested in having a meeting soon. If we take care of this by Saturday, then I'll have time to work on the changes and release B17 around Sunday.

Today isn't such a great day, but tomorrow I will be free from 18:00-22:00. Friday I will be free 0:00-4:00. Saturday I'll be free 18:00-0:00.

[holepercent]

in UTC +8

Friday 2100 which is UTC 1300 is a possibility..

if not maybe sat 1600 which is UTC 0800..

[jolin012]

1300 friday for doesn't work for me to time. I'm at school at that time, so shouldn't aslo least kaini prolly be. Sat day 0800, i Think it's ok if i can get up at that time. This Weekend evening and Saturday I've got plans though, a friend coming to the city, but ofc no meeting canceled due to just one.

[Kaini]

1300 friday for doesn't work for me to time. I'm at school at that time, so shouldn't aslo least kaini prolly be. Sat day 0800, i Think it's ok if i can get up at that time. This Weekend evening and Saturday I've got plans though, a friend coming to the city, but ofc no meeting canceled due to just one.

Yes I come home at 1430 in UTC.

Saturday 0800 UCT is 0900 here if I am not very tired I'll be here

Friday 2100 is ok too.

[Twilice]

I am totally fre this saturday. (I hope)

And I think this friday to 22:00 Utc +0 (I think I calculated that right)

23:00 my original time +1.

[Karawasa]

Shall we go with Saturday then? What UTC time shall we use? I really would like to have most (if not all) active leaders present so we can make significant progress.

[dvdlesher]

Today is Saturday on my country (UTC +8), how about others?

[Cisz]

Saturday just started (2am in gmt+1).

As long as the ground is dry, I'll be online.