Cisz

Sorry piskin, but short mode is not allowed. Edit - The periodic sells at 100%. Is this supposed to be allowed?

This belongs into this thread. Until someone explains to me how to merge topics, this is locked. Please post inte the other thread.

After some experiments I am 99.9% positive that blacksmith increases the splash of hydro. So hydro can be uses as an earth dmg tower in a slowing build, like a muck/storm build, especially if nature is not available (so quaker is missing). About zealot, it's 104%, 108%, 112%... and well does not have the full effect on this tower, as the maximum speed is the same with or withour speed boost, while blacksmith gives the full gain. Have you checked if blacksmith increases the splash dmg for quaker and tidal? Or the dmg of laser and impulse? I havn't tested those yet. And flesh golems experience gain is based on the dmg it deals, so it gains xp faster as it grows, and blacksmith should speed up that process.

This is just a first draft, please help me by correcting this and by adding more info. There are some changes to the map and one of the great mysteries are the new and/or changed game modes. We all know samerandom and allrandom, but whats tournament random? Tournament Random New That's a 4 element only samerandom. The 4 elements in question are voted upon with your worker. Once a game of tournament random starts, your worker has items in his inventory, and with those you can select 4 elements that you want to have in your match. The other players may disagree. And after the vote the game is a samerandon with only 4 elements and interest picks, and you don't get to know which elements are the four until they all have been summoned. Short Mode New This basically removes the first 15 waves. You get 1000 gold and the game starts at wave 16 with 3 lumber. If you play random, those will be automatically summoned, or you can use the summoning center as usual, with one mayor difference: All level one elemental that you summon before the first wave starts are killed automatically. If you chose to summon something a bit more high levellish, say, water 2, you have to catch that the old fashioned way, so carefull with that. It's a nice way to a shorter game. Competitive Mode New In this mode you get an extra building at the center of the map (the center of the entire map, not just your section). It slowly gains mana and can be used to cast nasty spells upon your oponents. Note that the map is hidden to the players in this mode, so to properly target your foes you have to use a revealing spell first. Chaos Mode Changed This is so awesome. It's nothing like the old chaos, this is basically an entirely randomized wave order. The following rules aply: The first five waves, wave 60 and the ronald wave are as usual. All HP values are changed, so the wave 6 allways has the same health, no matter if that comes out as shredders or priests. You can get anything from 4 nature in a row, mass undead, dark creeps when all you have is water, or non elemental till you weep. All players get the same order. Goes great with samerandom. Extreme Mode Changed The new extreme mode is all about speed. The health and armour of the creeps are unchanged, but they move faster. Very fast. And the delay between waves is gone, zero seconds delay have to do. O_o So - what did I miss here? Any mistakes? Additions?

I notice you start to have time in your games, that you don't have to do anything, so you are getting better. Try to allways think about the next wave. It is displayed in the multiboard, so even on chaos mode it's possible to plan a bit.

Where can I get those maps? Are there finished versions of your work?

Sigh.. If only we could get the eletd comunity to appreciate such beauty.

Nice you made it. Welcome to the forums.

Not yet. I am working on a huge calc sheet (1.4 mb) to hopefully get that fixed.

The first replay of my pack in the 4.0pb Replay thread is a won vh rnd. Usually I abort my games once have both won and leaked, so the other replays in the pack are aborted. (Direct link to the pack.) Edit - Oh, and my vh sr cm for 13ests ronald hunting challenge would qualify too. (Direct link to replay.)

Those are good tips, I agree with the other posters. Your micro looks great, especially when your worker runs around early on and drops towers everywhere, but, if I may be so insultingly open, you seem to slightly lack a plan. I have some more bits: -Don't use blacksmith before you have at least 2000 gold worth of dmg tower that it can boost. Blacksmith does not work on many tower, like for example electricity (which you combined with it), nova, oblivion, and many more. -Learn about two pass and long pass here, and don't play long range towers on anything if it's not either mech or you have 200% dmg. With 200% long range is tollerable, and on mech long range is not horrible. Maybe use elemental arrows instead. -Use splash towers on undead. -Pay even more attention to the damage types of your towers and the armour of the creeps, to avoid 50% situations. This one will come easily with playing more games. If you keep your fast fingers and continue trying you will get a remarkable player in no time. Watch some challenge replays or anything by jolin012 to get some tips.

ma23 - there is a screenshoots folder in your warcraft directory, and guess what happens when you press "print screen". I use AcdSee to convert them. IrfanView should the trick too.

Ice is a dmg tower imo, and afaik well does boost it. Not sure about blacksmith though, and even if blacksmith did work on ice, it probably won't affect the dot.

Rebuilding is a thing of playing random, and random has its own rules about ballance, All random never can be ballanced. If you get three $ and lv.3 in one element only, but I get lv.1 in all, you are dead. No ballancing will save you. And samerandom allways is ballanced, so again, no problem. Or do you rebuild on pick?

I got a lucky rondom on very easy too - first dual life, nova and storm, and wealth towers and monsoon later on. My max life was only 138 and I started to leak when I tried to beat the blue players net worth. Do you know that life works on mech now? You seem to drop them for mech sometimes. Please stick to the rules about naming your map. It was annoying to imitate your folders. And your highest life count was 139, not 138 as in the name of this thread, or 131 as in the name of the replay. You must be psychic, naming the thread after my replay, before I even posted. 1399 Eletd (4pb ve rnd) won abort - 138 life max.w3g

These are 3.8 mb a piece, hope it's not to big. Oh, and I gave up on uploadign it here, didn't seem to work. http://rapidshare.com/files/96048057/Screens.zip

VE is of no importance for the ballance. VE is for learning players that havn't mastered the map yet. If you find any abuses on VH, that might be of interest.

Mass hydro doesn't really work. I tried to stop ronald (only 30 are on the map) with mass hydro, and he just got slower. and that was on very easy. Many things should work on normal, but on vh the cheese get's hard indeed. Can you provide a jinx replay? I never tested that tower.

Yes, I did a ve test too, and aborted at like 15k ronalds. 1363 Eletd (4pb ve) 15k.w3g

5 Element builds Same rules as before. DmgInc = Damage Increase (given as a factor, 2.79 = +179% dmg, or 279% total damage) AOEslw = Area of effect (splash) slowing power, given in % speed reduction. STslw = Single target slowing power, given in % speed reduction. DmgInc AOEslow STslow Build l d w f n e Nr. 6,29 60 66 ldwfn 1 1 3 3 3 1 6,92 60 60 2 2 3 1 3 5,24 60 60 ldwfe 3 3 3 1 1 2 6,29 60 30 3 3 1 2 2 8,55 60 30 ldwne 2 2 3 3 1 3 8,55 60 30 3 3 2 2 1 8,55 60 60 ldfne 1 1 3 3 3 4 9,41 60 30 2 2 3 1 3 9,41 60 60 lwfne 1 3 2 3 2 5 6,92 60 30 dwfne 1 2 3 2 3 6 6,92 60 30 1 3 2 3 2 All have 60% aoe slow and at least 30% st slow. Worst is no light, only 692% damage, 30% st slow. Best is no dark, 941% with 60% st slow, closely followed by no water, 941% too, but only 30% st slow. Even the worst 5 element build is painfully good when compared to the 4 element builds. Edit 6 Element builds DmgInc AOEslow STslow l d w f n e 14,93 66 60 1 1 3 1 3 2 14,93 66 60 2 1 3 1 3 1 Now 6 ele builds even go up to 1493%, full slow ahead.

Good news: I have found issues. Bad news: There are issues. This is the second version, my first attemp had errors in properly representing the armour reduction (counted in to strong) and ranked polar to low. The armour reduction is now corect, and polar is counted as haviong 25%/50% dmg increase, alltough that's a simplification. Version 1.1 I enlarged my build explorer worksheet to a huge mass of zeroes and ones and finally got the first section done. I may have made mistakes, so if any build is misrepresented, please correct me. My results assume that trickery would work as a well or blacksmith, which is not yet the case. If anyone can provide me with a properly calculated damage increase equivalent for the three levels of trickery, I'll use that numbers instead. I also assumed the lower damage increase for voodoo (25%/50%) I don't differ between single target damage increasers (like enchantments armour reduction or flames sunburn) and aoe damage increasers (like corrosions spew acid or voodoos maledict), which might be problematic. In most cases I would expect that two single target debuffers can more or less replace one aoe debuffer, so that sounds reasonable. But I do differ between st and aoe slow, as they are very different in their clumping. I havn't taken into consideration if the towers needed to actually gain the boni for your game are affordable for the player. I just pretend that "available" equals "affordable". I expect this to be very untrue for the higher level towers/effects, and will check this problem later on. Until them these results are only "theoretical rankings". Theoretical build ranking for 4 ele builds, 4.0pb (With trickery faked and weaker voodoo.) Version 1.1 DmgInc = Damage Increase (given as a factor, 2.79 = +179% dmg, or 279% total damage) AOEslw = Area of effect (splash) slowing power, given in % speed reduction. STslw = Single target slowing power, given in % speed reduction. DmgInc AOEslw STslw l d w f n e 2,79 30 60 ldwf 3 3 3 2 1 3 0 60 ldwn 3 3 3 2 2 3 0 60 3 2 3 3 3 30 60 ldwe 3 3 3 2 3 3,3 30 30 ldfn 3 3 3 2 4 3,3 30 30 3 3 2 3 2,7 30 60 3 2 3 3 2,7 30 60 2 3 3 3 3 0 0 ldfe 3 3 3 2 5 3 0 0 3 3 2 3 3 0 0 3 2 3 3 3 0 0 2 3 3 3 3,8 30 0 ldne 3 3 3 2 6 3,8 30 0 3 3 2 3 2,4 60 66 lwfn 2 3 3 3 7 2,25 30 60 lwfe 3 3 3 2 8 2,25 30 60 3 3 2 3 3 30 30 3 2 3 3 3 30 30 2 3 3 3 5,7 0 60 lwne 3 3 3 2 9 4,56 30 60 lfne 2 3 3 3 10 5,03 0 60 dwfn 2 3 3 3 11 2,79 30 0 dwfe 3 2 3 3 12 2,79 30 0 2 3 3 3 2 60 0 dwne 3 3 3 2 13 2 60 0 2 3 3 3 3,6 30 60 dfne 2 3 3 3 14 3,6 0 60 wfne 3 3 3 2 15 3,6 0 60 2 3 3 3 Here are the losers: Build 5 - ldfe: Only 300% dmg, no slow whatsoever. It only has blacksmith and trickery. Build 2 - ldwn: Only 300% dmg, 60% single target slow. Build 4 - ldfn: 30% aoe slow and either 270% dmg, 60% st slow or 330% dmg but only 30% st slow. Build 8 - lwfe: 30% aoe slow and either 225% dmg, 60% st slow or 300% dmg but only 30% st slow. Build 12 - dwfe: 279% dmg, 30% aoe slow. Build 13 - dwne: 60% aoe slow, but only 200% dmg. And here are the winners: Build 9 - lwne: 570% dmg, 60% single target slow. Build 10 - lfne: 456% dmg, 30% aoe slow, 60% single target slow Build 7 - lwfn: 240% dmg, 60% aoe slow, 66% single target slow It's hard for me to ballance slowing against damage increase, but even for the same slowing power there are good and bad builds. If you go dwne instead of lwfn, you drop from 240% to 200% damage (and loose your st slow). If you go dwfe instead of lfne you drop from 456% dmg to 279% and loose your st slow. Playing ldfe is simply stupid, or brave, or both. Note that all builds with flame and polar are doing really, as give a st slow and a dmg increase. (Polar always contains ice.) Only one build with either of them is in the loser category: ldfn. That build highly depends on a (hopefully working) trickery, and you can't max trickery and flame (They share no element). All winner builds have one of the two. Note also that the three builds that have no strong triples (but two of the strong duals) do especially bad. The ldfe and ldwn are in the looser category and wfne is only saved by flame, without its damage increase it would be as bad as ldwn. The strong duals are not strong enough. MagicalHacker predicted this. As far as I can say, we are one single target slow short, and it should be in ldfe. Since fn and lw are st slows, de would be a logical choice, so they share no elements. Once I am done with my table, we can enter the dmg increase, armour reduction, and slowing power for every tower and get a power ranking for all builds in the same second. Once I managed to learn the proper commands, I will probably even be able to let open office calc do the searching for overpowered and underpowered builds. Coming up: 5 and 6 ele builds.

Have you tried to kill and earth wave with it? And now try a mushroom tower on two pass for reference. If one of them is stronger than the other, it's just by a small ammount imo.

Ok, what resulution is your display running on? I don't mean what it could be running on, what is the resolution it is set to now?

Thats what you just did, right?

Updated to reflect the existence of the 4.0pb.