Cisz

I don't quite see the need for this. You can cheat single player, and thats ok with me. Nothing of that will work in multiplayer. Do you want to entirely prevent stalling? Why not "loose game if leaked the second time" then? And "loose if wave takes over 3 mins" while we are at it? Or do you want to raise the difficulty for single player cheating? Why? Is single player cheating in need of regulation?

This has been done before, but that's a long time ago, on a different version of tft and most important, never before on the 4.0pb. So thanks for this replay.

@ loqula - Nice arrow opening. You can do that on wave 10 and 11 too, and then it's about perfect.

No no no. Drop flames dmg inc, add one more slow, so wl, fn and de are slow. That would remove the gunpowder (longrange must be removed) and add one slow to every build. Much better.

Another good tip is not to post in all caps. It's rude you know.

Jolin is right, listen to him. Only on this I beg to differ, if only slightly: The explanation for this is pretty complicated and is more for jolin012, so feel free to go : The arrows at 4, if placed and leveled corectly, will kill almost the entire wave. With just about 3 creeps of a normal (non-mech. non-fast, non-undead) wave killed elsewhere, a properly designed arrow group at 4 will work. But to get those few extra kills there is only area 5. At 7 or 1 the extra towers will combine their fire with the ones at 4, and result in often firing at allready killed creeps. If you place extra arrows at 4, they won't do extra kills, as they will either combine fire for an overkill or just partially damage creeps. Any two pass placement suffers from this. And the semi-long passes at 3, 9, and area "-" (upper right corner) will delay the finishing of the wave. So you need a long pass (so even weak arrow fire will do some kills), not in range of arrows at 4 (that is, not at 7 or 1), and not firing later than the arrows at 4. That's area 5, and only there. But you still did it wrong Timberwolf. Not only did you not use a proper arrow technique at 4, you even placed cannons at 5, and even more important, far too much gold at 5 and to little at 4. I recommend you spend your money in cannons at 3 and try to relocate to arrows at 5 for the elements. Cannons won't work at 4 on wave one when you are playing very hard. Use this for reference: I use cannons on 11 (fast) here, and jolin is right, arrows would have been even better, but I don't have to switch back to cannons again, and hey, it works. As for the later waves of your replay: Wave 40 - You have 3 quakers and one gold, so almost your entire damage is earth. Question 1 (5pts): What will happen on wave 40 (nature fast)? Treat elemental dmg as a weakness you have to cover. If you use earth, you need fire. More fire arrows would have worked. Wave 41 - I'm surprised this didn't work. The quaker at 7 would have been better at 5, because the creeps don't get slowed properly up at 7. Wave 43 - I'm surprised this didn't work worse. You upgrade nova (ligh dmg) right before a earth healing wave. The enchantment at 5 must have rescued you (it has the right dmg type to save your neck). All in all your build suffers from one mayor problem: you use quaker for damage, which is great if you have massive slow, but you don't have massice slow. Either try another dmg tower that doesn't have to be played on long pass, or use more slow. One choice could be to get darkness for roots. You also get voodoo by that, which is a great support tower, and you can get some magic towers to place at 4 or 3 or 9 (with increasing safety). @l2enegade - I have no time left tonight, I'll coment on your replay later. It might take some days though, as my term is starting tomorrow. 1450 Etd (4pb vh) cannons at 3.w3g

I am about to watch your replay, but I allready can tell you that you made a little mistake: In an "I don't have enough cash to build a periodics" situation you should sell towers. Or did I misunderstand your problem? (Watches..) Yep, you even build a pure water instead of the periodics. Shame on you Some smaller notes: Wave 21 - Those are undead, amped waters are much better than ice. Wave 29 - Tidal isn't great vs dark, light cannons or arrows would have worked. Laser is a very short range tower, so it's best to play it two pass. (You relocate to two pass, so you probably allready know. )

Light > Dark > Water > Fire > Nature > Earth (and then again > Light > Dark.....) Actually you only need to memorize two of the armour rules, as most of them are pretty obvious. Those should be pretty easy: Light beats dark. Water beats fire. Fire beats nature. Nature beats earth. The not so easy ones: Earth beats light and dark beats water:

There are no lv 3 triples.

I twas down for me too. Karawasa seems to have stumbled over some cable.

What is the problem at 6? It's slower than 4, so it should be easier, right? Watch some of your older replays again, maybe you made other mistakes? Time is a resource. If you keep towers, make them covered. For example: storm, nova, and roots cover each other in a circle. If you have corrosion and muck, you need earth to cover vs light. You understand how def and lnw cover each other? When playing at 6, use two windstorms, one at each 3 and 9. When you have all aoe slows or one of them maxed, play at 4.

Hope it helps. Keep those replays coming.

Ah, you are getting a lot better. Some tips: -Don't build at 4 (you know where 4 is?) unless you know it works. If you can't bet your car that it works, build at 3-6. -Especially don't build at 4 for mech, fast, and composite. -Especially don't use magic and mushroom at 4. Both need a pause between the two passes to rest their special ability. -Watch your replays and pause when the creeps arive under 4 again. Have your towers stopped firing before they do? If your towers don't stop between passes, it's not a two pass. -If you have aoe slow, build it. Why didn't you throw up some roots in the third game? -Impulse can't hit the entire map with your placement, the lower one can't hit the upper lane and vice versa. They belong into the very center. -You heavily leaked an undead wave while wasting your impulse towers on a fire 3 element. It takes only 50% dmg from nature, remember? When in doubt, kill the wave, leak the element. -The flame belongs into the corner, not the voodoo. -Try to learn relocating. Use a set of identical dmg towers at 4 (for most waves) or 5 (for mech), sell them and upgrade towers you allready prepared at 9. While the towers at 9 fire, prepare towers at 4 or 5 again. Don't expect to get much better, you allready are very good. I often die on rnd too. To win vh rnd, you need skill and luck. If you play like that in multiplayer you will need about 20 games to find a better player. Edit - I just watched my replay again, and it might look like I don't follow my own tipps. The problem is, there are exceptions from every rule. We will get to them once you are bored playing the standard procedure.

Hey, great. Replay pls.

We allready have two moving towers.

Hey, interesting discovery. But your screenshoot, I don't understand it. The unbuildable areas are not show, neither is a quark tower or a teleport or even your mouse poiter indicating a legit teleporting target area. Did I miss something here?

I managed a win on vh rnd on the 4.0pb today. Got lucky and rolled my 4 ele build first. (lwfn, the one I used for a no leak pick game). 1447 Etd (4pb vh sr) wl (finished).w3g

The arrow opening is a way to get the waves done with very little towers and pretty good speed. It's neither the fastest way, nor the best to max interest, but it's a speedy compromise. Here is a replay featurin the arrow opening: http://www.eletd.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6 The arrow opening relies on two arrows killing the same creep with one volley, so it does not work if you don't have the needed elements (wave 7 in this replay) or the creeps get too strong (wave 14 and up if you don't have the strong element). - - - Edit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Muck is a good tower in many cases on random. It has splash, is strong vs water, has aoe slow. When light shows up and it's weak, you can sell it (on random that is) and switch to mass amped earth or hydros.

The main problem here is that you basically removed the suport triples. Hm.

Is an average and standart derivation of all possible builds of "u"(dam/sec//gold) using known damage output and cost. Am I right? No. Those are absolute values, not in "u", and they are representing averages of the best sollutions for each element combo. I calculated the highest dmg/gold/sec (that is the best available boostable dmg tower, boosted by all boosts, and hitting a maximum debuffed creep) for all possible ways to spend 11 lumber (not counting interest or essence). I divided those builds into groups, based upon what elements they contain. For each such group I used the maximum dmg/gold/sec (that is I chose the variation with the highest resulting dmg/gold/sec), assuming that a player going lfne will know how to properly play that. Next I took those maximums and calculated the average maximum dmg/gold/sec for 4, 5 and 6 element builds. (In case of 6 elements, there is only one best build, and no average best build can be calculated, in brackets I gave the average of all 6 ele builds instead). Oh, and I ignored pures. Again I assumed that a player knows how to properly place and micro a tower. I totally ignored the range issue. My reasoning for this is that personally I don't see a future for long range in this map. And the values are given on the homepage, I just had to type a bit to get them all per second. Splash is a problem here. I made up some factors to make it look like I properly factored in splash. Most special abilities can be transformed into dmg/gold/sec. And I only looked at boostable dmg, so I didnt even type in the dmg values for well or blacksmith. There are a lot of errors and assumptions in this, but all improvements I could possibly make won't change anything: The ballance as it is sucks. When calculating new values for a better ballance, I replaced all support towers with one of two versions (for two and three elements), simply giving a dmg increase. I even did that to the aoe slows. And likewise I replaced all single, dual and triple dmg towers with placeholder singles/duals/triples that have easy stats. So once we decide on a new set of basic numbers, the next task is to get all towers equal to their dummy representation. Like making sure that polar and corrosion give the same net effect, or making earth and light beeing equally strong.

Update After removing some mayor errors in my table, here are the values for eletd 4.0 again: 4 Element builds - 30.63 dmg/gold/sec +/- 9.65 5 Element builds - 53.81 dmg/gold/sec +/- 15.82 6 Element builds - 132.86 dmg/gold/sec (54.67 +/- 18.22) The +/- bit is the standard derivation (and not the total derivation). I have taken the best build for each element combo and gave the average of those best builds for each number of elements. That is a drastic reduction of possibilities in the case of 6 elements. I am working on a new distribution of the dmg/gold and dmg increase. Here are some very unfinished numbers: Rough draft, anything but finished - handle with caution Those values are damage/gold/second, in a unit called "u", and thats the dmg/gold/sec of an amplified single element tower. Amplified single - 1u Focused single - 1.5u Refined single - 2u Duals - 1.5u/2u/4u Triples - 1.5u/2u Dmg inc for the three strong duals: 24/51/275% Dmg inc for the eight strong triples (pretending the net effect of the aoe slows was comparable to a dmg inc): 10/35% Result: 4 Element builds - 26.71u dmg/gold/sec (27.34 or 22.65) 5 Element builds - 27.23u dmg/gold/sec +/- 0u 6 Element builds - 27.5u dmg/gold/sec (18.14u +/- 4.12u) Those values are really close, and the derivation for 5 ele builds is zero. But 4 ele builds have 22.65 for builds with two strong duals or 27.34 for one strong dual, and thats still a big difference (factor 1.2). What I believe to be true so far: It's a bad idea to make any tower better at dmg than duals, as that greatly improves 5/6 ele builds. If I make boosting triples stronger, boosting duals get really low at lv one and really strong when maxed. If you feel bad about the suggested numbers, let me know what you'd like to be changed, and I'll try to make that work, or at least tell you why I failed with that.

Another tip is that dark towers are long range single target and belong in the center of the map (area 5) to have maximum effect. You should see elemental dmg as a risk, not a boost. Whenever you put money into elemental dmg, you get a weakness. So when you use fire, you need a sollution for water waves. You could sell the fire and spend the money on a different element (with another weakness) or buy basic towers if it's still early game.

Wave 8 (succubi) is missing the wave level information, when I select them it's not there.

Not been eaten by shredders? You should start playing 4.0, it happens to me regularily.

WB So - been eaten by shredders lately?