Chiquihuite

Wait for real? That's awesome! PS: Check your Skype. I sent you a message =)

This guy just might be the strangest forum spambot ever created 0_o

The only reason you need double damage is to make up for the times you do half damage. If you never do half damage or double damage, you lose out on the highs and lows that are at the core of element choice in ETD. Not to say there isn't room for some cool composite options, but turning them into a fully functional element path with towers you can mass to endgame runs counter to the design of ETD.

Umm, I know I've been out of the loop and all, but that XP loss thing sounds really mean. What's the motivation?

I wonder what could have changed to break these 0_o

The original specifications for fruit were exactly as you describe - gaining those abilities over time. I didn't think we'd changed that 0_o

Anything that grants power in such a way that it would be a mandatory pick is pretty much off the table for element picks. Like Interest and Resell before it, this would be a no-brainer for any serious game.

Isn't it the super weapon mode? That's what it was originally called, but with the design changes we've made already, that name doesn't really fit anymore. A passive interest increase isn't exactly a "super weapon" for example.

That's very interesting. They should be mutually exclusively in all circumstances. We'll check it out.

I guess I didn't state it clearly enough Re-sell was an experiment. It's getting the axe. We hear you guys loud and clear It may be preserved as an optional pick in the upcoming "item/spells/whatever you want to call them" mode, but it will no longer be in a balance position where it's mandatory for optimal play. ...That said, I would say our goal is for you to *not* fill up the entire board with max-rank towers. Honestly just finding a happy balance point for interest should be enough to allow for that. In the "items/spells/whateverthey'recalled" mode, interest would be available as a pick with a customer resource cost separate from element picks, but it'll be a risky choice. I suspect that making it not the default go-to best pick will do a lot to chill out its value.

We've talked about % based steal. It could still make it in. One thing I'm really pushing for is to try to make anything direct like that (steal resources, stun builder, drain mana, etc) avoidable in such a way that it will have some effect on you, but you've got reactive options (like moving, or using a spell) to mitigate the damage. I like the single creep stasis idea.

We actually have an "extreme" mode where leaking a single creep = loss. But nobody ever picks it

This should never be the case for something you get off the element picker. If it becomes mandatory, it restricts choices and removes strategic depth. As I mentioned in the other thread, this might be better suited for one of the available "super weapon" picks as a more passive/economic option.

I personally think it's already mandatory to do well in fruit, though I've only played a couple games so far. And to me, that's a problem. It'd be the same as if picking at least 2 fire elements was mandatory to be successful. I'm all for giving people cool options, but the emphasis is definitely on the word "options". Maybe we can look into rolling this into item choices as well?

Interest picks will be included with the "item" system. Many of the purchaseables will provide passive benefits as opposed to active spells - this gives you a choice of how aggressive or defensive you want to be in any given game. Of course, going interest will be risky if your opponents are very aggressive, but figuring that out will be part of the fun As for the sell value picks, I have to admit I'm not really crazy about this either. I feel like it's a cool experiment, but if it becomes a mandatory pick (like interest) instead of a playstyle choice then I'd rather cut it in favor of other options. @Mega: I think a lot of people play TDs specifically so they do NOT have to micro frantically every second of every game. Lulls in the action are in important part of the Tower Defense pacing. We need to be very careful that we're not asking the player to do too many things too often, though we can offer marginal benefits for doing more than what's necessary. You can think of the difference between a micro'ed celerity and an un-micro'ed celerity as an indicator of how we want that to play out. Beyond that, I personally find *constantly* rebuilding and re-selling every tower you own to be incredibly tedious. It's one thing to kind of strategically resell specific towers for type advantages when you really need them. Perhaps the re-sell option can be re-worked in a way that captures the "best of both worlds", such as allowing you to 100% sell one tower per wave or something.

Yeah, I feel like it could use some love. Kara?

It works pretty well for me at 5.

That's basically the same thing as interest - people not even touching the elements until 15 minutes into the game. I like the thought of making 100% refund available at a cost, but I don't feel good about cost coming in that particular form.

I'm afraid the WC3 version is no longer supported. The source file is now available here: https://forums.eletd.com/WC3-Element-TD-Ope...urce-t2311.html

Err, that's weird. I'll check it out.

Interest hoarding is ok, just not to the point where you can fill up your entire map with top tier towers. Anyway, good points on the other stuff. Definitely something to consider.

And maybe some nifty passive options, like "enemy creep evasion", "own creep chance to receive double damage", "interest increase" (to replace the current interest picks using vespene)... and who knows what else

Alrighty, so, talked to Karawasa about this a bit more. Allegedly EleTD was always supposed to be about PvP and "all y'all're a buncha slackers". But on a more serious note, I'm sold on the argument for going in that direction so long as we can do it without compromising the gameplay that makes EleTD fun. And speaking of gameplay, we really need to axe stuff like "sleep for 4 seconds" in favor of stuff that actually creates a scenario where both players have a hand in the outcome. Bad: Disable enemy builder for a few seconds. Good: Summon a Scourge near the enemy builder that will chase them for a few seconds. If it hits, their movement is dramatically slowed for a few seconds. The first one is basically just a "fuck you" to the victim. The second one actually creates gameplay. Every offensive ability needs to have a defensive counter available, and shouldn't be so crushing that you don't have time to react to it even if it does hit you. Ultimately, success will come from attacking better than your target defends. And of course, the design should be such that all spells give you at least some effect even if the opponent manages to avoid the worst of it. So mechanics would be like- Effect : Offensive / Defensive Multi Tower Range : - / + Multi Tower Speed : - / + Single Tower Range : -- / ++ (so building a single tower and buffing it massively becomes a risk/reward scenario) Single Tower Speed : -- / ++ ("") Multi Creep : Minor Speed Burst / Minor Stun Single Creep : ++Speed / --Speed OR ++Health / ++Dmg Received ...etc (basically uberfy or cripple one creep) Builder: Chase-And-Bad-Effect / Blink (Maybe slow builder as mentioned above...maybe steal some minerals...but it's mostly avoidable if you're on your toes) ...etc Anyway, it doesn't have to be exactly any of that, but I think I've conveyed my point. Being bombarded with shit you can't do anything about isn't exactly fun. Outplaying your opponent is

I appreciate the ultimate intent of what you're going for, but I think there's a lot to be said for slow iteration. We've got a very diverse community here that offers excellent feedback - I think we'd benefit from a smaller-scale implementation and the feedback that results from it before going even deeper into uncharted territory. We've got enough smart people here that we don't need to gamble on the success of our game. EDIT: By the way, we're almost back on page 1 again in North America

Fair enough. Come to think of it I still fire up nexus wars from time to time when I feel especially mindless.