DDRKirby(ISQ)

VH EX noleak has been done though ^^

well on the plus side, at least warcraft 3 =tells= you that the replay is outdated. In starcraft it just attempts to play the replay as normal, then midway through the game funky things start happening and then everything just sits there and random scv's will stop mining, etc and then 10 minutes later the replay ends. yeah.

@ jolin I just thought about it again, what I meant to say about the muck tower first, is that, since muck clumps the creeps up, it makes cannon towers more effective. Plus I knew muck was just an overall good tower. Your point is still valid in that zealot is probably more dps (you know this better than I do) but that was what I was thinking--that the muck would increase the dps of the temporary cannon towers.

hm, if I watch your replay I might see what I just meantioned muck+temporary huh? for an even slower placement? else there's no reason in the temporary placement, they make so MUCH less dpspg that even though you do sell and rebuild them that shouldn't work out well unless what you're aiming for is a placement as slow as possible as these levels are the ones you have your best chance to farm interest Oh yes, muck + temporary towers is less damage per second of course, but my mindset in this case was not really thinking about SPEED as much as you were. Now that you explain it, it makes sense what you're saying though, definitely. The slow doesn't really matter as much as I am thinking it does because I could have just built my temporary towers in different places anyways. So, you are totally correct. *bow* Also, to reposition at 7, that is very ambitious of you! I'm at work now so I can't watch the replay, but I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out. And, it gave me a good laugh to read your plan, "I was aiming for a fast game as possible, with a high net/Ron too, no leak" zealot/fanatic IMHO works very well against ronalds, whereas focused earth definitely does NOT. I'm sure you would understand why, but for those who don't, it's because earth is splash damage, and ronalds are never really that clumped up...and on the other hand, zealot is single target damage, and even better, since there is a constant stream of ronalds, the zealots never have a break in firing and so they maintain full efficiency. I think this is why you had more ronalds than I did (besides other factors like, my placement was not as good). ==== with the result of this draft I finally feel confident enough to go out and say that I am one of the top players here. Though I already of course had some inner suspicions of this before, I knew that the only thing that I had really proven myself in was ronald hunt, which was good but I didn't feel like it "covered all the bases" so to speak. All I was certain of before is that I build really really fast (and I think by now everyone else knows this as well xD). Though, in a multiplayer game, let me assure you I don't think I could keep up with cisz and jolin, they have played too many

damn that one leak *laughs* more comments coming later, I'm d/ling the replays right now. btw I'm surprised I was able to finish in fastest time, I really didn't expect that. I'll probably watch the replays now (it's morning here) and then write down some commentary later at work from what I remember. editing with some commentary: jolin: wow, you totally burned through those first rounds xD impressive, and your build speed isn't bad either! You took a lot longer starting from about wave 10, but I supposed that makes sense--the later waves you have more money so the interest is more important, whereas early waves you're only getting 1 or 2 gold each time so it's best to just rush through. That's probably one of the reasons I finished faster than you though, because I was setting up at 4 and 2/3 a lot, whereas you moved over to 6 pretty early. Ah, zealot first, now I see what your plan is. Interesting, but I knew that in my case muck first would probably be better since it would synergize with the rest of my temporary towers, whereas zealot just adds fixed damage. Plus I knew muck+corrosion was a nice combo. LOL at the mispick, but you managed to save yourself from leaking the lvl 2 elemental, impressive Wow, so many zealots ^^; I see, I would have thought it would make you weak against water waves but you did just fine. And IIRC you had pure water against the watery minions, so it worked out. BTW I don't know if you needed to spend so much at the end on round 60. If you had saved you would have had more networth, since it decreases with each tower you build (right?) I definitely like your muck/corrosion placement, though I would have put the ones at 6 a little bit higher I think. Overall your strategy was very solid of course, though at the end you had a bunch of zealot towers that were a little bit of dead weight compared to the fanatic towers, and not enough forge towers. I lol'ed at the arrow towers at the end, why not at least build another blacksmith or two, that would actually do something? ^^ Cisz: Ah yes, shame that you had to open at 6 =(, I wouldn't have expected that from you, but I guess it's because you don't interest abuse like us. Still, you played a very solid and "clean" game just like I expected you to. Except I don't quite understand the zealots at 9, and I would have spread the muck towers out along the path more, especially since you're using gunpowder. Haha, Cisz for some reason always seems to do the same but uses half as many towers as everybody else. The only other thing I have to say is...gunpowder sux! X_X I suppose if you're having the creeps travel all the way across the map, then it's not so bad, but still. Also, you had some minor boo-boo's at the end there deciding which towers to build. hehe. kaini: Not too bad~ You managed to catch a lot of leaks at 9 but...wouldn't it be better if you had played your entire game a little slower and not had to catch any leaks at all? Also, gunpowder sux! xD and You are right to be scared of shredders. Notice how I frantically build 10 gazillion towers during that round Overall a valiant attempt to play at 4, but I don't know if it's possible with that build. Interesting that you decided to go for light--as you can see, neither Cisz, jolin, or I did. I think that gunpowder didn't really synergize with your build. Yes, it helped you catch some leaks, but since you were playing at 4, a lot of the time the full effect of the gunpowder's range didn't hold. chris: Replay in wrong folder! xD so, as punishment, you have to wait until after I get back from work for me to review your game. =p --ok-- well, it was a nice try. But you cannot, cannot rely on arrow towers so late into the game. It's simply pointless to try, even if you build 100 of them. Also, try to avoid selling towers at all costs in AP, unless you really, really know what you are doing.

^^; it's ok, there is nothing to be gained from cheating in this contest except for guilt, so I trust everybody. I want to see results, though! and builds~ I eagerly await... as for the idea of another draft...this one was interesting, but somehow there was not quite as much room for variety and experimentation in builds as I would have liked. I know the point is to limit your options and work with the few things that you have, but somehow I didn't really play around with different ideas that much. Other than attempting to use gunpowder as a primary source of earth damage.

oh. I thought he had already sent it in. well, don't mind me for now *whistles* Edit - a certain moderator (Cisz) deleted your post, let's hope that the 1 download was not chris.

haha it's ok Cisz. I left you an opportunity to win. You'll see when/if you watch my replay Curious to see everyone else's builds =D btw I just finished as well, finally got one that I was happy with (though, as I said, I did end up leaving an opportunity for the others). It's 4:00 AM here in the US West coast. o_o;;

gosh, too little time left ;;; like 11 hours, right?

shredders, my man. That's all I have to say. Goblin Shredders.

i would assume so... is everyone gonna go for no-leak? mwahahahaha~

of course elemental arrows are always easier, sans the one extra upgrade step. but if you build as fast as I do, it becomes feasible to use super arrows. Though of course it can get hectic at times, and maintaining proper -placement- during all of that is a nightmare. =P

I once made the statement that versus composite waves spending all of your gold on super arrow towers would be more efficient than spending all of your gold on element arrows because of the damage reduction, but I'm not actually 100% sure of this. What are your thoughts on the relative efficiency of the different arrow and cannon towers? Assuming equal gold and neglecting the time it takes to build the towers, is 500 gold in super arrow towers significantly better than 500 gold in basic arrow towers? Obviously for elemental waves if you have the right element then it's the most efficient to do that. But what about composite waves? Should I be making element arrows to deal with knights or should I stick to massing super arrows with my quick build speed?

ah yes, on extreme you have to take extra precautions of course. haven't had too much experience with VH extreme i'm afraid.

In general yes you need at least one pure tower toward the end of the game (preferably more but one can do as well). Are you playing all-pick or random? have you read the tower placement guides? It's better to build too much than too little. However, if you are building so much that it's really overkill, then you will be losing out on a lot of interest, which screws you over later. Maybe watch some replays and learn from the best of the best You can attach your own replay if you want us to critique your playstyle more specifically and give better advice.

cannon towers are much, much more effective against undead waves. Since they tend to bunch up as they resurrect, the AoE damage really adds up. 4 Super Cannon towers should do a good job against wave 9 (maybe a little more, I don't know exactly since I'm always building temporary towers anyways). Arrow towers are better for pretty much everything else, especially in extreme mode where creeps move faster. Also if you watch replays, instead of microing the arrow towers, some of us like to build 2 arrow towers at the same place such that they both hit the same creep, and do just enough damage to kill it in one shot.

gl everybody~

-sometimes it may be the replay's fault that it doesn't open...not yours. For example they may have played using a different version of the map, different version of TFT, or maybe they put their map in the wrong folder. -gold towers are still here in 4.0 PB. However from what I hear they aren't as strong as before...

there is no question as to who are the best players around here

yep! Cisz covered everything I missed. Maybe soon we'll have some 1.22 replays out...wait, aren't you the one who was still using 1.21? In that case there's plenty of replays to watch and see what placements the pros use...

yes!~ knew you two could do it. so, did you notice any worthwhile competition at all?

Well, to get periodics in random mode, requires a bit of luck, no? ^^; completing VH at all is always a good achievement! Of course, there are those of us who can complete VH easily, given a decent build, but everyone's gotta start somewhere Will watch replay soon, I think. ===== Ah, can't watch this replay because it was made using a different version of WC3 than I have. I'm using 1.22, are you still using 1.21?

-What is the best tower to be used on long pass? Periodic. -What is the best tower to be used on 2 pass? Periodic. not sure if that was the answer you were looking for =p -Long pass or 2 pass? Now this one is actually a little more interesting. In most cases, 2-pass means that each tower will get to fire at the creep wave more times overall, thus it will be more efficient. So in terms of damage done per gold spent, 2-pass is better. One very notable exception is single targets (i.e. elementals). For these a long pass is always better. So it is often the case that a main defense is set up at a 2-pass area like 3 or 6 but then when the elemental comes, temporary element arrow towers are set up at a long pass such as 7 or 5. Another thing to keep in mind is that placement is a little trickier for 2-pass because the towers that fire first on the first pass will fire last on the second pass. So if you wanted to have a polar tower be the first tower to hit...well, you're gonna have to have two polar towers for that, one at each end of your defense. And then of course there is multiplayer, where in general you need to play faster, so people would play at 4/5 instead of 3/6/9, otherwise they will be overrun by creeps. One MORE thing, towers like nova and kindle work better at a long pass since they do AoE damage to everything around them. However if you already have a 2-pass set up, then nova would probably be better to support that 2-pass placement, rather than go off on its own longpass placement somewhere else. But for example, sometimes players like Cisz will solo an entire creep wave with one kindle tower placed at 5. In summary, always using 2-pass is not a bad thing at all. But you should understand the merits of both, and understand why longpass is better suited to certain specific situations.

i never visit the main page anymore =X I just go straight to the forums...

is that this week? of course, i'd be more than willing to wait...just make sure you win 8D