PunKZ Posted April 13, 2009 according to my understanding of "the rules", random never gets you more than 2 interest. Wierd I got it once in 4.0pb so then that's a bug then? Go to top Share this post Link to post

m0rph1ing Posted April 13, 2009 The 2 interest thing was changed after 4.0pb was released. Go to top Share this post Link to post

Karawasa Posted April 14, 2009 I've written a small Ruby script that calculates all possible combinations for me but there are very very many ways to pick. Can you edit your program to output some other useful values? Total Ways for 4 Element Builds: Total Ways for 5 Element Builds: Total Ways for 6 Element Builds: Total % for 4 Element Builds: Total % for 5 Element Builds: Total % for 6 Element Builds: Would be really useful to see not only in total, but also after each 5 level increment. Go to top Share this post Link to post

Kaini Posted April 14, 2009 Yeah I did that now. Here are the numbers: 25/40 ~~~~~ LEVEL 5 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 14.29% (1 combinations/1 ways) 1-element builds: 85.71% (1 combinations/6 ways) 2-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 3-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 4-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 5-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 6-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) ~~~~~ LEVEL 10 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 2.33% (1 combinations/1 ways) 1-element builds: 27.91% (1 combinations/12 ways) 2-element builds: 69.77% (1 combinations/30 ways) 3-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 4-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 5-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 6-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) ~~~~~ LEVEL 15 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 1-element builds: 7.89% (1 combinations/18 ways) 2-element builds: 39.47% (1 combinations/90 ways) 3-element builds: 52.63% (1 combinations/120 ways) 4-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 5-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 6-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) ~~~~~ LEVEL 20 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 1-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 2-element builds: 17.65% (1 combinations/180 ways) 3-element builds: 47.06% (1 combinations/480 ways) 4-element builds: 35.29% (1 combinations/360 ways) 5-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 6-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) ~~~~~ LEVEL 25 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 1-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 2-element builds: 5.17% (1 combinations/360 ways) 3-element builds: 37.93% (2 combinations/2640 ways) 4-element builds: 46.55% (2 combinations/3240 ways) 5-element builds: 10.34% (1 combinations/720 ways) 6-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) ~~~~~ LEVEL 30 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 1-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 2-element builds: 0.82% (1 combinations/360 ways) 3-element builds: 21.31% (2 combinations/9360 ways) 4-element builds: 51.64% (3 combinations/22680 ways) 5-element builds: 24.59% (2 combinations/10800 ways) 6-element builds: 1.64% (1 combinations/720 ways) ~~~~~ LEVEL 35 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 1-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 2-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 3-element builds: 7.93% (2 combinations/20160 ways) 4-element builds: 45.04% (3 combinations/114480 ways) 5-element builds: 40.79% (3 combinations/103680 ways) 6-element builds: 6.23% (2 combinations/15840 ways) ~~~~~ LEVEL 40 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 1-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 2-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 3-element builds: 3.74% (3 combinations/63360 ways) 4-element builds: 34.20% (6 combinations/578880 ways) 5-element builds: 49.38% (5 combinations/835920 ways) 6-element builds: 12.68% (4 combinations/214560 ways) ~~~~~ LEVEL 45 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 1-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 2-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 3-element builds: 1.77% (5 combinations/198720 ways) 4-element builds: 24.65% (10 combinations/2764800 ways) 5-element builds: 52.92% (9 combinations/5935680 ways) 6-element builds: 20.66% (6 combinations/2317680 ways) ~~~~~ LEVEL 50 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 1-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 2-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 3-element builds: 0.77% (7 combinations/570240 ways) 4-element builds: 17.09% (15 combinations/12597120 ways) 5-element builds: 52.69% (14 combinations/38838960 ways) 6-element builds: 29.45% (10 combinations/21705840 ways) ~~~~~ LEVEL 55 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 1-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 2-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 3-element builds: 0.29% (8 combinations/1373760 ways) 4-element builds: 11.16% (19 combinations/53237520 ways) 5-element builds: 49.88% (20 combinations/237863520 ways) 6-element builds: 38.67% (15 combinations/184375440 ways) 20/40 ~~~~~ LEVEL 5 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 14.29% (1 combinations/1 ways) 1-element builds: 85.71% (1 combinations/6 ways) 2-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 3-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 4-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 5-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 6-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) ~~~~~ LEVEL 10 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 2.33% (1 combinations/1 ways) 1-element builds: 27.91% (1 combinations/12 ways) 2-element builds: 69.77% (1 combinations/30 ways) 3-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 4-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 5-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 6-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) ~~~~~ LEVEL 15 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 1-element builds: 7.89% (1 combinations/18 ways) 2-element builds: 39.47% (1 combinations/90 ways) 3-element builds: 52.63% (1 combinations/120 ways) 4-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 5-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 6-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) ~~~~~ LEVEL 20 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 1-element builds: 1.14% (1 combinations/18 ways) 2-element builds: 22.81% (2 combinations/360 ways) 3-element builds: 53.23% (2 combinations/840 ways) 4-element builds: 22.81% (1 combinations/360 ways) 5-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 6-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) ~~~~~ LEVEL 25 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 1-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 2-element builds: 7.87% (2 combinations/810 ways) 3-element builds: 43.15% (3 combinations/4440 ways) 4-element builds: 41.98% (2 combinations/4320 ways) 5-element builds: 7.00% (1 combinations/720 ways) 6-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) ~~~~~ LEVEL 30 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 1-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 2-element builds: 1.29% (1 combinations/810 ways) 3-element builds: 25.25% (3 combinations/15840 ways) 4-element builds: 51.65% (3 combinations/32400 ways) 5-element builds: 20.66% (2 combinations/12960 ways) 6-element builds: 1.15% (1 combinations/720 ways) ~~~~~ LEVEL 35 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 1-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 2-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 3-element builds: 9.67% (2 combinations/34200 ways) 4-element builds: 47.35% (3 combinations/167400 ways) 5-element builds: 37.88% (3 combinations/133920 ways) 6-element builds: 5.09% (2 combinations/18000 ways) ~~~~~ LEVEL 40 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 1-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 2-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 3-element builds: 4.64% (3 combinations/109800 ways) 4-element builds: 36.95% (6 combinations/874800 ways) 5-element builds: 47.44% (5 combinations/1123200 ways) 6-element builds: 10.98% (4 combinations/259920 ways) ~~~~~ LEVEL 45 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 1-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 2-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 3-element builds: 2.23% (5 combinations/351000 ways) 4-element builds: 27.15% (10 combinations/4282200 ways) 5-element builds: 52.10% (9 combinations/8218800 ways) 6-element builds: 18.53% (6 combinations/2922480 ways) ~~~~~ LEVEL 50 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 1-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 2-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 3-element builds: 0.98% (7 combinations/1020600 ways) 4-element builds: 19.08% (15 combinations/19855800 ways) 5-element builds: 52.87% (14 combinations/55036800 ways) 6-element builds: 27.07% (10 combinations/28177200 ways) ~~~~~ LEVEL 55 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 1-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 2-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 3-element builds: 0.37% (8 combinations/2478600 ways) 4-element builds: 12.58% (19 combinations/84893400 ways) 5-element builds: 50.80% (20 combinations/342878400 ways) 6-element builds: 36.26% (15 combinations/244712880 ways) Detail tables are attached. 20_40.txt 25_40.txt Go to top Share this post Link to post

Karawasa Posted April 14, 2009 Can you attach the new program? Go to top Share this post Link to post

Kaini Posted April 14, 2009 Can you attach the new program? etdcalc.rb Go to top Share this post Link to post

Karawasa Posted April 14, 2009 After playing with the program, I've come to the conclusion that it would probably be best to revert to 20/40. Thoughts? Go to top Share this post Link to post

PunKZ Posted April 14, 2009 After playing with the program, I've come to the conclusion that it would probably be best to revert to 20/40. Thoughts? Go for it! Go to top Share this post Link to post

holepercent Posted April 14, 2009 the concern here is the strenght of the elemental. can the tier2 elemental be killed within a standard two-pass build without leaking? the hp was buffed so that 2/3-ele builds are harder to rush. Go to top Share this post Link to post

Twilice Posted April 14, 2009 Not good with numbers, but are we supposed to have 13% only to get a 4 element? Shouldn't there be a little more even like 20%/50%30% Go to top Share this post Link to post

echinodermata Posted April 14, 2009 ~~~~~ LEVEL 10 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 2.33% (1 combinations/1 ways) 1-element builds: 27.91% (1 combinations/12 ways) 2-element builds: 69.77% (1 combinations/30 ways) 3-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 4-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 5-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 6-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) Consider the tree diagram. We have LEVEL 5 --> LEVEL 10 0 element (1/7)(1/7)=1/49 0 element 1/7 1 element (1/7)(6/7)+(6/7)(1/6)=13/49 1 element 6/7 2 element (6/7)(5/6)=5/7, where the (5/6) and (1/6) factors occur because the same element cannot be picked twice. So the ratio is 1:13:35. Which is to say not all 'ways' are created equal. Go to top Share this post Link to post

jolin012 Posted April 14, 2009 leaking a boss once with no longrange towers isn't too bad. leaking a boss tier 2 on lv 20 with say impulse would be wrong though Go to top Share this post Link to post

Karawasa Posted April 15, 2009 leaking a boss once with no longrange towers isn't too bad. leaking a boss tier 2 on lv 20 with say impulse would be wrong though Is that the case now though? Go to top Share this post Link to post

Kaini Posted April 15, 2009 ~~~~~ LEVEL 10 ~~~~~ 0-element builds: 2.33% (1 combinations/1 ways) 1-element builds: 27.91% (1 combinations/12 ways) 2-element builds: 69.77% (1 combinations/30 ways) 3-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 4-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 5-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) 6-element builds: 0.00% (0 combinations/0 ways) Consider the tree diagram. We have LEVEL 5 --> LEVEL 10 0 element (1/7)(1/7)=1/49 0 element 1/7 1 element (1/7)(6/7)+(6/7)(1/6)=13/49 1 element 6/7 2 element (6/7)(5/6)=5/7, where the (5/6) and (1/6) factors occur because the same element cannot be picked twice. So the ratio is 1:13:35. Which is to say not all 'ways' are created equal. What do you want to say us? Go to top Share this post Link to post

Cisz Posted April 15, 2009 I suggest that the 5th and 6th pick have an increased chance to be lv2 eles. because the problem is not how many eles I get, it's their levels. In 4.0 I need to level up, no matter how many eles I'll end my game with. Go to top Share this post Link to post

Karawasa Posted April 15, 2009 That would be making things artificial. Let's see how 20/40 does, and revisit post 4.0. Go to top Share this post Link to post

echinodermata Posted April 15, 2009 What do you want to say us? Your combinatorics is flawed. As was demonstrated, just counting 'ways' does not produce the correct probabilities at level 10, and hence does not produce the correct probabilities for any subsequent level. Go to top Share this post Link to post

Kaini Posted April 15, 2009 Oh dear you are right! My values are a bit different but later that could make some percent difference. I'll look for the bug. I hope I am able to fix. Go to top Share this post Link to post