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jolin012

IRC Meetings

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Man, my connection was so bad, even our phone was gone.

I have one addition only: Impulse tested weak here. Can anybody try to do things with impulse that zealot can't do better?

Example:

Impulse does about as good as zealot, but impulse takes max micro to do so. So imo impulse needs a boost. What do you think? is my test convincing?

Otherwise, as far as humanly possible, this looks as ballanced as I can wish for a release.

Edit: Do we attempt a second meeting today? I'll be online in about 2h (18:00 gmt), and I expect me to be much more connected this time.

1605 Etd(4pbb vh) impulse vs zealot.w3g

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Yes, let's attempt a second meeting today. I'll be on for the next few hours. Otherwise, perhaps another meeting tonight at the same time as the previous?

I'd like to have it soon so that we get macro covered as well. That way I'll be in a good position to make changes and release b19.

Thanks to everyone who showed up and contributed. I too feel good about the micro balance, and we are getting closer to an exciting release.

PS: Impulse may very well need a buff, we can address it at next meeting.

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Bump!

proposing another meeting this sat at the usual time. 1600 (UTC+8)

to cover:

creep classifications

macro balance

draft pick

league bot

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great. the latest week felt like:

What are we testers supposed to do now? wait? wait for what?

When will we get our next beta?

What will be implemented before 4.0 is released (of those holepercent mentioned and including the question "terrain?")?

When will Karawasa show up in the IRC and tell his opinions to all the above mentioned?

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It would be really nice to see creep class changes within 4.0, because they sort of represent balance and that's what 4.0 since PB was all about. So - as we didn't get a beta yet, I'd like to do a request:

It would be nice to see a beta before the meeting, changing mech to 1 sec windwalk(invis and coll size 0, no speedboost as discussed in thread about that) 5 sec CD (4 sec rest)

Also healing changed, upon taking damage heals 5% of dmg taken in a 100 AoE. Or as some argue would be better, 10%maxhp heal upon dying in a 150AoE. Perhaps put out 2 betas, one with upon death and one upon taking dmg?

And if you like, make the fast wave have larger creep spacing. would be neat to try out (remember that these things are meant so that we can try before discussing, backs up theories alot, and such things are hard to tell without testing) double creepspacing of current perhaps?

Am I underestimating the work and time that this takes to code? I know windwalk and such already exists but perhaps it takes alot of time anyway to give it to all mech units and such. But we have really discussed this enough in theory, to continue progress we need one or a few new betas.

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It would be really nice to see creep class changes within 4.0, because they sort of represent balance and that's what 4.0 since PB was all about. So - as we didn't get a beta yet, I'd like to do a request:

It would be nice to see a beta before the meeting, changing mech to 1 sec windwalk(invis and coll size 0, no speedboost as discussed in thread about that) 5 sec CD (4 sec rest)

Also healing changed, upon taking damage heals 5% of dmg taken in a 100 AoE. Or as some argue would be better, 10%maxhp heal upon dying in a 150AoE. Perhaps put out 2 betas, one with upon death and one upon taking dmg?

And if you like, make the fast wave have larger creep spacing. would be neat to try out (remember that these things are meant so that we can try before discussing, backs up theories alot, and such things are hard to tell without testing) double creepspacing of current perhaps?

Am I underestimating the work and time that this takes to code? I know windwalk and such already exists but perhaps it takes alot of time anyway to give it to all mech units and such. But we have really discussed this enough in theory, to continue progress we need one or a few new betas.

+1

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Guest Sancdar
It would be nice to see a beta before the meeting, changing mech to 1 sec windwalk(invis and coll size 0, no speedboost as discussed in thread about that) 5 sec CD (4 sec rest)

Wait, changing or adding? I thought divine shield was being kept, because otherwise you're making a wave that's stronger against ST. Splash damage still hits invisible units.

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Mechanical will stay Divine Shield. The numbers will probably stay the same too.

Healing will go to AoE heal on death.

Undead will stay the same, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Fast creeps will remain fast (i.e. 350) but will also have short WW ability that allows them to debuff, anti-clump etc..

I'll be there this Saturday.

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Damn, my alarm was not trustworthy :( Sorry guys for failing to show up.. (next time I'll connect one of these to something that makes ALOT of noice :) )

anyway i read all of the chatlog and putting my comments here:

<@Karawasa> maybe ww doesn't do anything
non coll size would let them run through clumps.. and without having mech shield to it, we would be able to increase the time to 2sec last 4 sec rest (6sec CD)or so, so that they had enough time to get out of clumps. At least I believe this will work, can't tell for sure if it works or not without a beta. The WW could be added to either mech or to fast, but should NOT give a speedboost.

03:08 <@Karawasa> i was thinking about erupt

03:08 <@Karawasa> hydro tower

03:08 <@Cisz> "eletd - now with ewoks"

03:08 <@Karawasa> and how it makes the creep fly for a short amount of time

but when i suggested them flying you said they'd fly over the borders? and if they act exactly like hydro (sticking to creep path) they still can clump.. afaik hydroed creeps can clump wtih each otehr and with the regular.. but if you think it might work(they able to walk through each other anyway), shoot :) just don't add a speedboost that is random, cause it causes clumping, and with synched speedboosts nothign would happen really, if there's a clump and they all get speed boost and non coll size for 2 sec, with 0 coll size they'd still stay in a clump, or even closer to each other. cause they can ignore each other and in parallel reach their next checkpoint all walking inside each otehr cause they started as one big clump.

Draft
I can't comment much here. hope you find time getting it to work :) I know there's alot to do stuff, so I'm not trying to rush anyone.

03:02 <@Karawasa> what about fast

03:02 <@Karawasa> so boring

Nah, with fast either having really large spacing or the WW ability it'd not be boring (combined with faster movement ofc)

So, a WW with speedboost does NOT work, WW needs to stay non speed boost. Needs to not be synched either, need to be randomly. WW can be added to either mech or fast or stand alone(but only I seem to believe it can do anything alone, perhaps it can't, im not sure about anything before testing this) Fast if not added with WW should have really large spacing. mech if not added to WW shoudl remain as it is.. Preferably mech should be the WW+shield one and fast should be increased spacing. undead stays same perhaps reduced reinc time, healing changed to heal upon, sure you seem to want to try upon death, but i have my doubts that it's possible to dodge too easy.

BTW, some seem to think WW is to prevent splash. but, well at least my first thought was that it should prevent clumping, not splash alone. but we could ofc have WWed units be invulnerable too if you like (aka combined with mech).

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Jolin, is it true that windwalking creeps still can be hit by any aoe and splash? So they can be slowed? And hit?

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depends how we make them :)

the main reason is coll size 0

but we also have the option to add:

total invisibility (untargetability), invulnerability, debuffing and immunity( to spells like slow).

all depending on how powerful we want them and what we want them to counter. shall they counter splash, then we have them invulnerable. wanna counter clumping even more than coll size 0? perhaps immunity+debuff helps that.

if we're combining this with mech into the new mech, then it shouldn't be wrong to have all these. coll size 0, invulnerability, immunity+debuff. perhaps though, it'd be good to keep them not totally invisible so the player can know that they are there and let them be shadowly, like a discovered windwalk, but the player can also see the invulnerability shield. or - if that looks bad, total invisibility is fine too.

The reason that would make it good to not have invulnerability would be if we do not want to punish splashing alone. if we only wanted to punish clumping. i mean splash is punished by fast, by bosses, by new healing allready.

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