Cisz

Ah - good point. I don't wanna judge my own replays. Now who has the authority to judge the judge?

That disconnect was the worst thing that happened at this tournament. I'm really sorry for you jolin.

The total damage of a battery needs to be balanced here. If they do less total dmg than an ordinary tower, they can't be abused, but suck, and there is no reason to use them. And it doesn't matter how high the dmg of a single shoot goes. An extreme example: If the battery fires one time, dealing 300.000 single target damage, and is empty then, I won't use it. Any decent splash tower can do much more together with slow. A refined earth needs 300k/7.5k= 40 hits to do this, so with hitting about 6-7 targets it will need only about 6-7 shoots to reach this dmg. Or, to make it even clearer, a wizard tower needs only 3 shoots with its mana based extra dmg of 99.999 points to equal that. If you can get a wizard tower to a 4th shoot, a battery tower would need 400k total damage to be ballanced.

I predict that in one of the next tournaments it will become clear, that racing can be countered w/o racing yourself, w/o leaking, and with making more interest than the racing player.

Sancdar was an hour late and so he was audience only. We played a few games after the event, and he had massive lag, he wouldn't have played his usual high class.

And another one: >> R.E.M. - Imitation of life << Pan and scan, back and forth, sync and sync, 20 seconds are enough. The time is shorter than you think. The content is bigger than you think.

It was to expected that winrar, a non free program, was the one you need for it. Zip to good for you, eh?

I like the resurrection idea. Brings back quake1 memories.. If they gain notable less health than a healing wave, it's ok.

Cloning a pure? To strong. Not even if an essence is needed for the copy. Because it's still about 15k gold out of nowhere. Cloning other peoples towers? Gets stronger on mulitplayer? I don't like that part. Remove both, and it's ok with me.

Copy towers? This is the sequencer thread.

I like that.

That's an armour reduction, right?

Great. So what can I get you? I have a huge collection of replays, but most are my own. Anything special you want?

I often longed for a command like that. Only drawback, it has to be implemented. Sounds like work. Is it worth it? I don't know. Bu if we get it, great thing.

Get's much more damage with slowing, highly dependant on it's range. Charge basically is a long cooldown.

There is no interest after the fourth pick (after 20 the last interest is possible, it can't be rolled later, so 4 interest is the maximum possible).

Builds that don't have aoe slow (with ld, wf and ne beeing the aoe slow duals) will be limited to those with less than 4 different elements of level 2 or higher, right? MagicalHackes tool is great. It allowes me to give you this numbers: Total builds: 456 (100% of all builds) (ignoring interest and essence)Builds without aoe slow: 48 (10% of all builds) Builds with exactly one level of aoe slow (20%): 216 (47% of all builds) Builds with one level 3 aoe slowing dual (50%) or two lv2 (combining to 40%): 168 (37% of all builds) Builds with maxed aoe slow: 24 (5% of all builds) 90% - Not that unlikely, right? Hey - come back and fight.

Good call. So you opt for the hard way, to make different towers do the balance? The "3 duals as aoe slows" would not lead to strong aoe slow all around, but to have every build with 4 or more towers have like 20% or 40% or aoe slowing strength. That's far less aoe power than lfwd or lfwn has now, and can be dropped more if needed. Only if you get a aoe slow dual to level 3, it will make your build a maximum slowing strength one. But I can understand if this still looks a litle to homogenous to you.. , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , What's harder to get - a level 2 tripple (aka maxed out) or a level 3 dual? I would think that killing 2 level 3 elements is quite a task. And a maxed dual gives you far less available towers. I even suggested to make level one of them single target slow only, so you have to get them to level 2 before aoe slow even starts. So I'd say, it's only easy to get a level 1 dual, a maxed one is harder and more limiting than a maxed triple. Do you agree? Look at this: Dual 1 - ld Dual 2 - fw Dual 3 - ne (Of course those could be other elements, as long as they are not shared among the duals.) Now try to get them all. And remember: Dual lv1 - 20% single target slow Dual lv2 - 20% aoe slow Dual lv3 - 50% aoe slow What is the best you can get? Can you do Better than 70%? Now the second part, this are the strong triples for this distribution: lfn, lfe, lwn, lwe, dfn, dfe, dwn, dwe If you max out slow, how many triples do you get? Of what level? More than one on lv1? So lumber - what do you think of that trick?

I've been having a word with Karawasa on the chat the other day, and he explained to me that the challange titles are kind of hard to award, as this forum makes it difficult to award custom user titles. MagicalHacker is working on a sollution for this, but it will take a while. In the meantime Karawasa allowed me to help out with a temporary fix: I'll be judging the challenge replays and listing all titles here, in this thread, for all world to know. So here are the challenge winners: akabegformercyy - Challenge 1, 2Cisz - Challenge 1, 4CzarDragon - Challenge 1Dingolicious - Challenge 6energig - Challenge 4GipFace - Challenge 5, 6jolin012 - Challenge 1, 2, 4, 6, 7Psatek - Challenge 7Sancdar - Challenge 1, 2ShaveTheWhales - Challenge 4, 6, 7Teodoric - Challenge 2TuN - Challenge 1, 2, 3 If you have submitted a replay before 22.5.08 and don't find your name here, I must have missed it. Please let me know. <!-- s:wink: --><!-- s:wink: --> If you failed at a challenge, I will let you know. Edit - this thread is closed now.

Sorry, I totally missed your post. Thats actually not true. There is no way to get more than 3 elements w/o having one of the following towers: ld, wf, ne. And every 4, 5 and 6 element build has at least one of them. And likewise there is no way to get more than three elements to level 2 w/o having one of said duals on level 2. So only if you have one element of each dual on level 1 or 0 over the entire game, you play w/o aoe slow. There are 15 groups of builds with only level 1 or 0 in three elements for the entire game, and of those only 8 fullfill the requirements to not having any aoe slow. So how often did you have a build with only three elements on level 2/3? And of those, still close to half of them have the duals in question on level 2 minimum. Take a look at this: >> All builds and if they would have aoe slow << You will notice that the big mayority has at least one level of aoe slow. You would ofc get the aoe slow considerably later in the game. What du you think?

Here is an example of such a distribution that gets pretty even values: >> Click me << The weaker builds are the ones that level elements without getting any multi element tower higher, eg. getting the elements for a tripple to lv2, and they don't lead to a high level dual.

I'm not giving up on the 3 duals/8 triples as easily. I hit troubles with a certain 6 element build, which looked to strong compared to a non triple 4 element build, but think I can avoid it now. (@Karawasa - we talked about it on the chat, but I think I have a sollution for this scenario.) And I want good arguments about what's so bad to have all builds more or less equal. I'm not entirely done with how to make it work, but it sounds very promising. @lumber_of_the_beast - "I agree with Karawasa; keep the AoE slows as triples." - Why? Ice never was a triple, but didn't cause to much problems so far. Explain please. One possible scenarion with the 3 duals/8 triples distribution is to make the three game deciding duals of the same kind, say aoe slow, as different kinds of support are harder to balance properly imo. It looks like this: Dual lv1 - 20% single target slow Dual lv2 - 20% aoe slow Dual lv3 - 50% aoe slow The maximum possible aoe slow in this suggestion is 70% with this (and it can be lowerd ofc if that's to high). Most normal builds that have some elements on level two would give you one or two level 2 strong duals, so we get alot of 20% and 40% aoe slow builds. There would be at least one aoe slow in every 4 element build and at least two in every 5 element build, but not of level 3 if you don't really invest for it. And again, there is no way to get higher than one lv3 and one lv2, which is max aoe slow. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . One step back: It should be quite possible to make the strong duals something like one aoe slow (say storm), one armour reducer (say acid) and one other, say gold. But I imagine this harder to balance. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Even further back: We could either go for the 2 duals /8 triples or stick with the 8 triples. But we should do so for good reasons. This is the list for 4 element builds with the 8 triples solution: 01 S1, A102 A1, ?1 03 S4, A1 04 05 S4, ?2 06 S3, S4 07 S2, ?1 08 09 S3, ?1 10 S3, A2 11 S1, S2 12 S1, ?2 13 14 A2, ?2 15 S2, A2 (S is aoe slow, 4 of them; A is armour reducer, 2 of them; ? is other, 2 of them) And this is a rough draft of the dual/triple with all duals beeing aoe slow: 02 1 aoe slow, 2 triples 03 1 aoe slow, 2 triples 04 1 aoe slow, 2 triples 05 1 aoe slow, 2 triples 06 2 aoe slows, no triples 07 1 aoe slow, 2 triples 08 1 aoe slow, 2 triples 09 1 aoe slow, 2 triples 10 1 aoe slow, 2 triples 11 1 aoe slow, 2 triples 12 1 aoe slow, 2 triples 13 1 aoe slow, 2 triples 14 1 aoe slow, 2 triples 15 2 aoe slows, no triples If used with duals as aoe slows, the second sollution looks more boring and easier to balance. And it has no weak build anymore. So, what do you think?

It's called mass arrows.

That sounds fun. Did you have nature?

My first idea was to make the dual the aoe slows and the tripples the armour reducers, speed increasers, damage boosters, bounty raisers, and such. This would lead to a very aoe slowed map, as there is no 4 element build w/o an aoe slow. Suggested duals: ld Cold (like ice is in 3.0) wf Storm ne Root or nova (like nova is in 3.0) Those dual towers are meant to decidingly influence the game, but since a dual is available very early, they need to have little damage. So this wf-storm is nothing like the 3.0-storm. It can't solo at all. Same with root/nova. The maximum a player could have of those strong duals looks like this: 1 x level 3 and 1 x level 2 - 10 picks required (4 element build; leads to no good triples) or 2 x level 2 and 1 x level 1 - 10 picks required (6 element build; leads to all good triples, level 1 only) The maximum aoe slow a player could have is level 3 and level 2 stacking or 2 x level 2 plus level 1 stacking. The second has to be weaker, as it includes all good triples on level 1. So the maximum speed reduction is achieved by lv3 + lv2. If the maximum speed reduction of aoe is to be about 70% (dunno if we have a value for that now), the values could be like this: Lv. 1 - 9% reduction Lv. 2 - 18% reduction Lv. 3 - 52% reduction This only sounds high, as you can never have more than one level 3 and one level 2, due to the position in the builds. Maximum aoe slow with 4 element build is 70% and with 6 element build 45%. There has to be a mayor jump from level 2 to level 3, to make a 6 element builds aoe slow significantly weaker, to balance out the available triples. This will also take care of the "aoe slow everywhere" effect, because only if you put 6 picks into aoe slow, you will get the strong levels. Sounds good?