WindStrike

Be careful, it's a trap! Buffs to the following towers:Poison - I vote to reverse the most recent change so that it's back to max 6 AoE but charges up slower.Laser - I don't get it, on paper, its DPS is good, but the tower is still meh. I'm guessing its the fighters' travel time. Speaking of which, I've told this tower to target something close to the tower itself, but because the fighters are so far away, they don't actually listen to my commands unless I click 5+ times.Quark:If I haven't said it before, Quark (Earth + Light) is imbalanced. It's overpowered in the beginning and underpowered late game due to placement issues and it just not hitting right. Also, its range increase is very hard to make use of... as in, it's not worth using. That said, I will once again request.... just change it back to the original Quark. Sorry, but I don't see anyone ever using its range increase, and when you get randomed Earth 3 + Light 3 in maze, you're pretty much screwed because it won't hit much.Oblivion:This should have the same mechanism that Ephemeral has where, if it doesn't shoot for say, 3 seconds, it auto-reloads.Anything with attack ground:As it is now, if you select multiple Mildew towers and tell them all to attack ground a spot, only the first one you selected will actually attack ground. However, hitting the stop command for all towers causes them all to spot attacking ground. This is also true for Ice and Jet towers.Refined Towers:First tier single-element tower, fine. Focused towers, fine. Refined towers are just on the weak side though. Could their cost be reduced by 300 minerals? It seems like a lot, but I really think they need it.Menu:The starting menu should be spliced together so that it's one menu instead of two. If you're wondering about Wars mode, just stick something on the Wars description that says the second menu won't do anything if you select Wars. Or it could gray out the second menu if you try selecting Wars mode.If you want a good example of starting voting menu, see Photon Cycles. It's flashy, but it works.Creeps:Speed - This is the number one round slaughtering everyone, even more than healing waves. It could use a nerf to x2 or x2.5 speed.Mechanical - It can burn in a fire, lol. But yeah, could you reduce it to 3.5 seconds invulnerability? It's getting through even 10 range towers sitting on corners, and sometimes even my 12 range towers.Fruit - Latest few posts in this thread - https://forums.eletd.com/Fruit-Round-t2956.html. The nerf to speed will not change my opinion on this, mainly due to single-target becoming practically worthless on the fruit round in the current format.Maze:Creep Speed - Back to what it was, so that it's double speed by the end.Creep Regen - However, this goes down to 2% from 2.5%.Hero:Nerf the hero abilities a bit and get rid of the creep dodge chance, it's just something that's aggravating to deal with.Wars:Non-Mazing - Cooldowns reeeaaally need to go back to what they were (30/45/60 instead of 20/40/60).Mazing - Rather than it being a 50% increase, drop it to 25% increase or 33% increase. 50% was definitely too high.Team - Decreased gold bounty.Pure Towers - Cooldown on Fruit summons should be same as combo towers, 60 seconds. As it is now, pure rush is waaaay too effective. In fact, they're way too strong in Wars mode period because of this. Annnd that ended up being a lot more than I thought it'd be, lol.

Randomized as in... if one player gets 3 mech in a row, followed by a healing, two undead, and an image, everyone else gets that same thing and order. Something else that's bugging me - the lines "the fruit grow stronger" are still evident and well... whoever is fastest ends up forcing say the undead enhancement on everyone else's fruit. Shouldn't it be purely by wave rather than time based, or whatever it is? The fruit round really should be solo and have no influence on other players. Maybe it does already, but I've seen the speed buff get added before the speed round even starts. EDIT: So yeah, something else.... with the current fruit format, every single bloody defense I make in a pub game gets pwned by the speed round. I think my flood build is the only one capable of getting past it, though it's not fully tested w/ pure waters instead of pure natures in pub games. I just tried infrared the other day, slaughtered first four rounds then didn't kill a single one on speed round. Tried jet, same thing. Flamethrower/magnify/cannon, practically the same thing. Most of my best builds pretty much kill the first four waves without much trouble, then it struggles trying to kill a single one on the speed round. Runic w/ 5 element got screwed over too. I'm not even going to mention single-target towers cause... as I originally stated earlier, they become practically useless on wave 2 and then even worse when undead stacks on top of it. If there's a build, in pub games, capable of killing through that speed round (and I'm not talking about maze mode either), I'd love to see it, cause other than potentially my flood build, I'm stumped. As far as I can tell, it doesn't exist.

Something else, if it's going to be randomized, it needs be the same randomization for everyone so that it's at least fair in that respect.

I honestly didn't know what in the world was being used, so I just used a build. It wasn't stated at the start of this thread, which really should have.

Alright, so since fruit changed to waves, a lot of those invalidated towers suddenly got a lot better. However, some towers became practically useless, namely single-target towers. I tried mass haste earlier, it died on round two because image was the first thing added. Mass splash seems to always kill until speed hits. So rather than adding one whole ability to all creeps every few rounds, how 'bout it's still in waves, but every ability is alternating on the fruits on wave 1? Say, 6 mech, 6 healing, 6 fast, 6 image, 6 undead, and 6 normal, all alternating (or it could just be randomized). About wave three or four in, every fruit has two creep abilities. Six or seven in, three abilities and so on. This would make it so that single-target doesn't get instantly invalidated. And because it's still waves, all those other towers that were previously invalidated still work.

Actually, you might have this won. The problem with ice towers - unless I was to go Trickery, I can't combo it with anything. Secondly, Mildew > Ice on Maze mode, period. Even with the recent ice buff.

It's time for a random suggestions update from a random person! Some of the following is technically more along the lines of bug reports, but they're not actually bugs, so I'm putting them here. Buff Life Tower's damage from 24 to 30. Out of all the towers in the game, this one is easily the weakest. Yes, its effect is great, but its damage is so horrendous that it's usually not worth getting more than one as a finisher. Its like the money tower, except that money tower is waaaay better.Ice tower laaaaaaaaaaags. It's not just graphics lag either; there's a huge performance issue with it. I was on the fruit round, and I've got 20 Level 3 Ice Towers w/ attack ground on, all with Level 3 Well Buff. Looking at it, graphics lag. I move off screen, the FPS goes up to about 80. The moment they start hitting the fruit themselves, it suddenly lags like crazy, and moving to the screen itself caused me to nearly lose B.net connection because of how badly it lagged. This was on LOWEST graphics settings; I usually run on maxed graphics settings and have few lag problems for other towers. I don't know what's causing the lag, but a tower that acts similar to Ice, Mildew... that one, I've actually done 20 towers w/ Level 3 Well Buffs. Minimal lag.I was in a Wars match, maze mode with 4 players (including myself). The cooldowns on the towers were as follows:Basic - 30 secondsSingle Element - 40 SecondsCombo Element - 60 SecondsThere is something off about that, and the game was moving at a really slow pace, despite me intentionally trying to speed the game up by spamming lots of level 1 grenade towers. I know I suggested previously that maze cooldowns should be higher than in standard game, but... the basic level towers (ray/grenade) have cooldowns that are a bit too long and slow the rest of the game down to the point where I was forced to grab two pure elements just to stay alive in terms of networth.As noted in this thread, some of the DPS numbers on the site are waaaay off. Pure Nature is only x10 of refined when it should be x15, and Pure Earth... I haven't the slightest idea where that number came from. All levels of Well Towers are using the previous DPS number. Velocity uses the same DPS number as Celerity. I believe that's all of them. Personally, I think the chance-to-dodge on creeps in Hero Mode is retarded. What it does is cause too much of a reliance on the hero. While towers are a necessity in that mode, I really think the hero's damage (including all of its abilities) should just be nerfed some instead of chance-to-dodge. It's especially aggravating when using Grim only to have it miss three times in a row. Or worse yet, towers that hit slowly can get really screwed by it. I might've had some more, I just can't remember at the moment. Anyhow, that's all I got for now. EDIT: Here's an unexpected one - buff haste towers. Just a little bit though.

Okay, if you don't see a submission from me today, that's because ice towers lagged the game so badly, that my connection dropped. I have 0 FPS right now... which is actually more like 0.01 FPS, but it's ridiculous. EDIT: Yep, I can't submit my replay. It drops me well before I die. I'll give it another try later with my graphics on lowest, but if that doesn't help, then ice tower has some serious performance issues.

Fire in the hole! 159 Kills, 1139 Points. I might give it another shot with pure natures instead of pure earths later. v138 VH _ 159 Kills_ 1139 Points.SC2Replay

So far, the highest I've seen anyone get is just over 1500 on maze mode. Essentially, four-pass vapor defenses will completely slaughter up to that point and then die to fruit suddenly getting to healing. I have a theoretical design that might pull it off out of straight retardation... I have no idea if it'll really work though. Great job getting to 500 on standard though. I think I got just shy of 500 using my flood build in multiplayer last time, though that's due to everyone voting normal difficulty, lol (less money, less fruit points per kill). Are you NA or EU player? Don't think I've seen you on yet, tis all (I'm NA here). Also, coming up this week is me doing an actual fruit score run.

Most of the players don't know the towers well enough to do so. You play with the few that do know (example, myself, holepercent, Karawasa, Ayr, there's more than that) and yes, we will actually build counter towers, which can be hectic in random mode. However, the problem with that, especially in EleTD is that you usually lock yourself into an element build. That build might have a great defense, but the counter towers might not exist in that build. Or they're a tier lower than what's needed to bring someone else down. I know grabbing Money towers pretty much owns everyone else that isn't using celerity or ephemeral and, to an extent, yourself. That point asides, I do agree with your assessment on the current Wars mode in that it's EleTD without the waves. As for your suggestion... usually I see income as an issue with all tower wars games - whoever gets ahead wins by default. However, if there is one or two more things to balance income out such that highest income does not always win, then it actually can be something good. The problem is usually finding what those variables are and then balancing them. One of those variables would be, as you've suggested, a unit cap. I don't think a second resource would be necessary here - instead, just by having "charges" on the creep selection menu would essentially cap the number of creeps you can send per wave. Though I wouldn't dismiss the possibility for it either. A few questions, not asking for a definitive answer, but moreso your opinion: Do creeps still provide bounty or is all of your money from income?Is there an interaction or influence between your towers and the creeps you send? For example, say I have a Flood Tower (Water + Dark + Nature) and send some Water creeps at everyone else. Do they get a slight HP buff or would this be a bad idea?Do the creeps scale in strength as the game goes on or do they simply scale in the creep center? Wars mode for EleTD has be very careful about how it's done, because if not done right, it becomes a standard Tower Wars game where the elemental combinations are a gimmick instead of being the core game. Additionally, the game itself is pretty complicated already, so there is a limit to the complexity a wars mode can bring. Your suggestion is perfectly reasonable... while SC2 B.net intelligence isn't exactly the greatest (at least not on the NA side) and we've had to cope with that, there are ways to fix that without having to oversimplify. I do think the current Wars mode is an example of being too simple, and quite frankly, nothing can fix it without completely changing it. Good ideas in there, it certainly made me think twice about income, considering I'm usually anti-income. I think we can work something out here... whether Karawasa will change the Wars mode to that or not, no idea, but it's always good to be thinking about the next step and improvements. Keep suggesting ideas and let's hope something good comes of it.

Congrats on the 100th game man! Regarding the numbers, that's simply a flaw. I'm guessing Karawasa for whatever reason just multiplied by 10 instead of 15 on the site. In the game it is right though. I have no idea where he got the number on Pure Earth from, lol. Thanks for letting us know.

That's been in place for.... a few years now. All of SC2 and a good amount of WC3 version. I do recall there being a single-target slow tower, but that was a much older version of WC3 EleTD.

Well, I don't see any spammers, so... I guess it worked. Woohoo! Thanks Karawasa. EDIT: Nope, there's spammers still. Less though. Any chance those plugins work without having to upgrade?

Very well, we'll go with what we already picked... I pray to god you don't know my revised Mildew setup, or else I'm automatically screwed. Unless a certain setup I try with a certain other tower happens to work just as well if not better, in which case.... have fun. You still have two more picks followed by me picking two more followed by you picking one more.

I prodded Karawasa with some PMs earlier after asking someone else about the spam issue, not sure if he saw them or not. Essentially, the forums are using an outdated version of the board (by quite a bit), and when it's upgraded, it'll need two plugins that'll solve the spam issue: >http://akismet.com/>http://www.stopforumspam.com/ (currently seeing server error, which uhh... isn't good, but I don't see spams on the other forum I go to that has the protection) Hopefully the spam issue will be fixed soon, it is quite irritating.

Should we restart the triples draft pick then? It just went a little... haywire. I'm fine with what it is, though if Ayr wants to try and mess me up, I'm fine restarting the triples.

Doh, so much for screwing you over, lol. Very well... Muck and Ion (previous pick). Jet upgrades to Muck, so that one is still valid for me. Celerity and Torrent, and since you technically can't claim anymore- derp, you actually can claim a few more. Your build may only be DFNE right now, but there's some duals you can build off of. I can't do a replay until Tuesday at earliest, no access to a computer until then (on my laptop currently).

Muck and Barb.

Takin' Ice then. Onto triples! Nova

Note to self - do not show Ayr my revised version of that defense until after this draft pick is over, or else I might die. Though I might die anyways just cause of what I'm doing (something along the lines of bad ideas). Jet and Vapor.

Tried it too and it didn't happen on my end. Could you post up a replay of it?

Well, good thing I didn't try to my Ice rush kill build earlier for a speedrun, would've run into this issue. Thanks for reporting the bug, hopefully the bug will be fixed today whenever Karawasa gets online. Feel free to continue reporting any more bugs you may find.

There is a bit of an error with the attack ground - when you select a group and tell them to attack ground, it only has one of them use it. Otherwise, really nice.

Mazing. Well and Infrared.