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About Venny

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    Element Tower
  1. Tower Wars with Income and Interest This Tower Wars model utilizes income, but also interest. A key part of the balancing behind this mode is Income (heavy summoner) vs Interest (heavy defender). Players will find this system highly variable and will have to adapt to the situation of their game. No two games should ever play out the same. Income is received on the interest interval. The game pace is 100% player controlled with no elements forcing the players to take any actions, however a system of soft-incentives encourages players to play actively and will prevent people from just staring at each other, waiting for the first summon. Players will move the game along because it's too their benefit. Difficulty must be locked into Very Hard (explained later). Creep Workshop: Creeps are summoned by players through a creep workshop that exists either as a building or a menu. Creeps start identical to wave 1 creeps in standard competitive EleTD, and upgrade in HP/Bounty according to the standard waves. This means creeps can be leveled all the way from wave 1 to wave 60. Players can perform the following actions at the Creep Workshop: - Set any armor type free of charge, including composite. - Toggle ONE ability on/off to their creeps, but doing so increases the cost of the creep by 20% without increasing the bounty or income. This makes the creep summon less profitable to the summoner (but still profitable), but the damage inflicted upon opponents provides incentive to add abilities. - Upgrade wave level (permanently) - Summon five creeps of the specified design. Five is an optimal number because it allows abilities to be toggled on without resulting in a decimal cost. A few things to note: - Creep cost = Bounty yield. Summoning 5 sheep costs 5 gold. - The summoning player summons creeps against ALL players (including themselves). - Summoning creeps provides income equal to 5% of the summon cost. In other words, 1g cost = 1g bounty = 0.05 income. Summoning 5 sheep costs 5 gold, will yield 5 gold to every player (after being killed), and will provide the summoning player 0.25 income. The Relationship Between Income and Interest Since the summon cost ALWAYS equals the bounty yield, this will result in a net cost of zero for the summoner, but a profit equal to the bounty yield for all opponents. However, the summoner gains income equal to 5% of the summon cost. This creates a long-term incentive to summon creeps, as within 20 income/interest intervals (300 seconds), the summoner will make up the difference, but WAIT! With interest still in effect, players observe an interesting profit curve. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/incomevsinterestgraph.png This graph shows the profit curves for summoner and defender, given the example of summoning 1000g worth of bounty at 5% income (50g income): - Green Line, Defender Profit: This represents the profit of a player defending against a summoning player's wave of creeps. This assumes the defender banks the bounty gold and allows the 2% interest rate to accumulate. - Blue Line, Summoner Profit Max: This represents the profit of the summoning player who banks every last gold that comes his way as a result of the income. This is INCREDIBLY unrealistic though. - Red Line, Summoner Profit Min: This represents the profit of the summoning players who spend every last gold that comes his way as a result of the income. This is far more likely. The summoner WILL NEVER realize a net gain over his opponents without utilizing some degree of interest. Spam Summoning to income stack will put you behind your opponents. The summoner has to utilize some degree of banking to profit more than his opponents. In other words: Spam Summoning will put the summoner behind his opponents. Unlike Tower Wars based purely on Income, the game does not boil down to an income race. It's still a battle of net-worth, but this system has an incredible number of checks and balances. Summoners have incentives to try and bank a bit of gold to realize a gain over their opponents, and Defenders have incentives to summon to try and put pressure on Summoners. The bottom line: Everyone must do some summoning and defending. How much will depend on how other players play and on personal preference. If in a large game, many players choose to summon heavily, the increased pressure from sheer number of creeps will force some defensing, and will make defensing feel more economically viable. If in a large game, many players choose to defend heavily, the opportunity to become an isolated summoner will cause everyone to jump at the opportunity. Basically this creates a highly adaptive situation where every player wants to summon as many creeps as possible, while building as few towers as possible, while allowing as few leaks as possible. Upgrading Waves versus Upgrading Defenses (Vespene) Upgrading the waves will follow a simple formula: - Upgrading to the next wave costs (20 x Next Wave Bounty Yield) and gives 2.5% of the cost as income. Upgrading from wave 1 to wave 2 would cost 20g, and gives 0.5 income. - The payment evens out within 40 income/interest intervals or 10 minutes. Everything made after that is pure profit over opponents. It's not a whole lot, but it provides an incentive to level up waves when defenses allow. Leveling waves too quickly will result in insufficient short-term gold and the death of the player. - Waves DO progress past 60. Wave 61 jumps from Ghosts to Fruit of Death (with the usual fruit of death HP), but the Fruit continue the same bounty curve from the ghosts. Ghosts yield 304 bounty per kill, level 1 Fruit of Death yields 335 bounty per kill. - Upgrading to Wave 62, 63, etc. simply upgrades to Fruit level 2, 3, etc. Bounty/Income continues as normal. The total gold cost to upgrade from wave 1 to wave 60 costs 66720g, and will yield a total of 1668 Income. This might seem like a ton of gold to earn every 15 seconds, but since players now spend gold on many things besides towers, the vastly increased gold is necessary. Vespene costs a fixed amount of gold to acquire: Vespene 1 = 100g Vespene 2 = 250g Vespene 3 = 750g Vespene 4 = 750g Vespene 5 = 750g Vespene 6 = 2500g Vespene 7 = 2500g Vespene 8 = 4000g Vespene 9 = 5000g Vespene 10 = 5000g Vespene 11 = 5000g Total = 26600g I'm going to go ahead and say that these numbers are somewhat arbitrary, and each vespene should have their numbers adjusted through play testing according to balance. Acquiring vespene DOES NOT grant income or interest of any kind. The incentive to buying vespene is the increased gold efficacy of more powerful towers. The Cost Spikes Explained: - Vespene #3: First three-element tower enabled. - Vespene #6: First lvl 2 three-element tower enabled, or lvl 3 two-element tower enabled, or six-element build enabled. - Vespene #8: Enables the dreaded Deceit/Fountain/Factory tower + a lvl 2 three-element tower. - Vespene #9: Enables six-element builds to construct the their first lvl 2 three-element tower. Enables three lvl 3 two-element towers (Poison + Fountain, for example). I am suggesting these numbers as a base-line to begin balance testing. Individual costs of each vespene can be tweaked as necessary. Players must still defeat an element boss to acquire its element, as per usual. Boss Workshop The boss workshop completes the balance system between heavy summoner (income abuser) versus heavy defender (interest abuser). Simply put, the creep workshop by itself poses three issues: #1 - Summoners won't summon what they can't kill, because they hit themselves. #2 - If Defenders HAVE to max out the creep waves, then everyone becomes a summoner by virtue of necessity, which degenerates the game into the usual Summoning/Income race. #3 - Splash towers COMPLETELY dominate single target towers. Thus, enter the boss workshop, the offensive paradigm of this new EleTD Tower Wars model and the primary method for taking lives from an opponent. The Key Differences Between Bosses and Creeps: - Bosses have no ties to the Creep Workshop whatsoever. - Bosses are summoned ONLY against opponents. - Bosses cost NO MONEY to summon, and provide no gold, income, or affect economy for any player in anyway. - Boss Summon Charges begin to accumulate once a player acquires his first element. All players have a max limit of charges they may store. Since bosses cost no money to summon, there's no reason not to use them. They can also be upgraded for gold, which players will feel inclined to do because a one-time payment of gold will permanently upgrade all future boss summons (which are free!) Here are the base boss statistics, designed for being summoned against opponents with just their first element (equivalent to a super-empowered wave 6 to 10 creep): 250 HP 2 Lives Taken Per Pass Default Creep Speed 1 Charge per 60 seconds (Increases for every player beyond 2) 3 Maximum Charges Any element type (free, including composite) One ability (free) Players can perform the following actions at the boss workshop: - Summon Boss. - Set Boss Element and Ability. - Upgrade Boss HP. - Add Boss Traits. Boss HP levels begin at level 1 by default (250 HP), and have HP/Upgrade costs based upon Vespene levels. For example, a player with 4 Element Picks should theoretically handle a Level 4 Boss, though with a little difficulty. Boss Levels up to 11 would correspond to Vespene Levels, and then Boss Levels would continue to level up so to overpower any defense imaginable. I've played around with HP formulas in a worksheet but can't seem to figure out good numbers. The actual HP of each Boss Level may need to be manually adjusted. Bosses can also be given traits from a trait pool. We probably should start a suggestion thread for these. Boss traits are simple to understand: - Grabbing any trait upgrades the cost of the next trait. - Some traits have multiple levels. - Traits stack and are permanently added to bosses. Some initial ideas for traits: +1 Lives Taken (3 Total) +1 Lives Taken (4 Total) +1 Lives Taken (5 Total) +1 Max Boss Charges and +33% Charge Rate (4 Charges/33% Charge Rate Total) +1 Max Boss Charges and +33% Charge Rate (5 Charges/66% Charge Rate Total) +15% Slow Resist +15% Slow Resist (30% Total) Auras and such could make for synergy between Bosses and Creeps. There's room for a whole host of stuff. Summary This Tower Wars model should solve the issue of Income by using a dual-economy dynamic of Income versus Interest. It also solves the issue of incentives, as players will move the game along because doing so benefits them. No more need for forced events or empty beginnings. Bosses provide the key cog in balancing out Income versus Interest. As stated before, this mode should LOCK IN Very Hard. Simply put, Very Hard has the right balance of creep hp/armor to force a defense from players right from the start. Any lower difficulty will simply result in players blazing through the early creep waves until creep difficulty catches up to tower damage. It's a player controlled system and pace, therefore the players will inevitably migrate the game to a 1:1 ratio of Creep Survivability to Tower Damage. Very Hard starts at 1:1, so it makes sense. The numbers provided are just base-lines to begin balance testing with. I have no doubt most of them will change, but changes should be pretty simple to make by adjusting single variables since almost all the values (bounty, summon cost, income, etc) are formula based. Overall this mode should cater very well to veteran players and intermediate players and new players alike, provided everyone in the game is roughly the same skill level. It's player controlled, so the difficulty of any given Wars game depends completely on the opponents. A worksheet with some scratch numbers: Tower Wars.xlsx
  2. Venny

    Masters Mode

    Which came first, the chicken or the egg? That's what comes to mind for me. This isn't meant to be sarcastic, I honestly don't know if this would work or backfire. Furthermore, the purpose of Wars was to add more competitive spirit to the game...maybe we should focus on improving that? I've always seen Wars as a more chaotic/fun mode of game-play. The towers aren't exactly balanced for wars, and there's still the issue of matching up what creeps get summoned with an appropriate tower. Obviously the game could change to favor wars mode over defense mode in terms of balance, but I figure the defense mode is the more popular of the two. From a player's perspective, wars also has too few fixed variables to make a desirable proving ground. A big part of why I'm suggesting a master's mode, besides just the fun of a harder difficulty, is the addition of a scoring system that balances nicely between time and net-worth, because most strategies tend to roll one way or another. A tournament based on time kills off a huge portion of the tower base, while a net-worth and/or fruit based tournament also kills off a huge portion of the tower base. I know there's a scoring system used in some of the older replay tournaments, but it seems needlessly complex, and (far more importantly) also lacks public testing. How about, rather than master's mode, just start with a tournament mode that can still be played on any combination of settings? Tournament mode wouldn't touch anything (for now), but it WOULD introduce fixed wave-timers (that can't be accelerated by clearing the wave early.) and a scoring system that people can play publicly at any time. This way, people can practice "tournament" style play before actually participating in a tournament. Most importantly, frequent multi-player games using the scoring system would identify problems and create balance for said scoring system. Pioneering the first competitive TD would give EleTD a unique feature not found in other TDs . I digress. It's probably too early for something like master's mode, but I wanted to get the idea out there so thoughts regarding long-term goals could begin, or maybe even implementation so that a top-end mode would be balanced and ready for use by the time a large, highly-skilled player base is established. An enhanced mode could come later, but make no mistake: sooner or later EleTD needs to offer a much harder, much more intricate mode of game-play than Very Hard has to offer. And I'm not talking about increased HP/armor. More creep abilities, maybe different kinds of base creeps, end-game bosses and basically more and more challenges to break up the monotony of just 30 creeps per wave. Attracting new players is important, but almost as important is keeping current players interested too. Linear content has limits. Creating additional content endlessly is unfeasible. Competitive content is the loophole to this problem: the same content keeps people enthralled forever and ever.
  3. Nice try . Competitive only. Doh!
  4. Extreme_ VH_ Random_ Chaos _ FFFEENNLLWD.SC2Replay I did this on August 17th, but I can make a new one if you'd like. This is my favorite game set-up, so I wouldn't mind.
  5. I suggest renaming this challenge to "Mandatory Interest Abuse". The sheer lack of options and lack of room for creativity does not allow for anything else. Challenge _3 _ Mandatory Interest Abuse.SC2Replay Did it on first try, though the run is about as ugly as it gets. Lots of unnecessary leaks, strategic flaws, and several incidents of "trigger finger" where I dropped cannon towers at the end to finish off a creep but sold them before the creep died, losing me some extra lives like an idiot. I can make a much cleaner run, though I'd rather not. Hard interest abuse is boring.
  6. Venny

    Showdown Mode

    The more obvious (and frankly more skillful) method would be to lock everyone into equal minerals. No interest. No bounty. Just a fixed amount of gold to work with that increases per wave.
  7. How are these factors balanced against one another? What's most important? Fruit points? Anyway, Venny #760 I'd like to know more about the parameters before drafting.
  8. I think you'll particularly enjoy the current version. Every tower is good at the moment; you can pretty much take any combination of elements and make it work
  9. I know this should technically fall under suggestions, but helping new players into the game is currently the largest issue at hand for EleTD, so I'm putting this thread into the general discussion so newcomers can easily find this thread and give their input. Anyway, I was reading this thread: https://forums.eletd.com/Leaks-t2961.html, and it got me thinking. The opening menu needs to change. There is, as Twilice points out, way too much information for new players to process. A Newer, Easier Menu - The menu should be re-sized to encompass the entire screen in much the way "Hero Attack" does. No background or anything else capable of distracting newcomers. - Selectable options change from drag-down menus to bulleted lists. Boxes would contain each set of options. This set-up would allow new players to see all the options instantly, as opposed to searching through each drag-down menu. - Situate major options such as Tower Defense or Tower Wars in the upper left and let them bleed down. - Relegate minor options such as Armed/Unarmed and Heroes to the right side of the screen and give them check-boxes. In this way, new players won't give them equal attention to more important details, and hopefully they'll outright ignore these options until they learn the base game. - Include brief descriptions for all major options. - Default selections to settings that best accommodate new players, and highlight these defaulted settings with red, italicized text. Another major change: rather than two sets of menus, put all the options for classic onto the first menu (mode, difficulty, random, etc) and simply have them disappear if the player selects Tower Wars, but bring them back if they change back to Tower Defense. Introduce a Guide An automated guide that teaches players as they play, rather than random intervals of tips that may or may not help, would greatly assist newcomers. Advice would trigger based on the player's actions. I've prepared examples that I think would help a lot. When the game loads Hello, and welcome to Element Tower Defense! If you are new to Element Tower Defense, I recommend leaving your votes on the default game settings (highlighted in red.) When the game begins Use your builder to create towers to destroy the incoming creeps! The first wave will attack soon, so hurry up! *Have the build button on the worker flash red several times* After beating wave 5 You've beaten the first 5 waves! For every 5 waves you defeat, you will receive one vespene gas that you can spend to purchase an element. Purchasing an element will send an elemental boss against you, whom you must slay to receive your element. *Migrate camera to elemental summoning center and select structure for the player. Cause the six elements to flash. " Killing the first elemental boss You can now build <element> towers! Elemental towers are far more powerful than arrow or grenade towers. However, elemental towers only refund 75% of their cost if you decide to sell them. Place elemental towers wisely! Building first <element> tower You built an <element> tower! <element> does double damage against <element>, but half damage against <element>. A little into wave 9 These creeps have the ability: undead. Undead creeps will resurrect themselves with 40% hp when they die! Splash-damage towers are effective counters to undead creeps. A little into wave 11 These creeps have the ability: speed. Speed creeps gain occasional speed bursts, allowing them to run past clusters of short-ranged towers! Spreading your defense out or building long-range towers are effective counters to speed creeps. A little into wave 13 These creeps have the ability: image. Image creeps gain occasional speed bursts, allowing them to run past short-ranged towers! Long-range towers are effective counters to speed creeps. Messages would continue to trigger like this and, slowly, feed information to the player. Players can disable the guide permanently across all play-throughs by typing in a command.
  10. Challenges _1_2 _ No Slow_ 7 Towers.SC2Replay Aug 16, 2012 - I simultaneously attempted both the no-slowing and the 7-tower limit challenges together. The result was ugly due to a horrendous mishandling of my trickery tower at wave 51, but I did it. Honestly, the hardest part of this challenge was restricting myself to 7 cannon towers. I disqualified myself twice because of habit .
  11. Challenges _1_2 _ No Slow_ 7 Towers.SC2Replay Aug 16, 2012 - I simultaneously attempted both the no-slowing and the 7-tower limit challenges together. The result was ugly due to a horrendous mishandling of my trickery tower at wave 51, but I did it. Honestly, the hardest part of this challenge was restricting myself to 7 cannon towers. I disqualified myself twice because of habit .
  12. This replay was made during the torrent tower bug. Basically, the level up component of damage would tack onto the standard attack, so a fully charged level 2 tidal tower would have over 10k attack added to its standard attack. At that time, the intended damage of a level 2 tidal tower was supposed to be 400 damage per shot, so you're looking at a 2683.75% increase in damage over what a tidal tower is supposed to do. Currently, level 2 tidal towers are supposed to have 450 damage per shot, but that's still 2396.67% more damage output than intended. I would suggest attempting the challenge on the current version. There are no major bugs at current, at least to my knowledge.
  13. Question: Can I turn on extreme mode to speed things up? Or competitive only?
  14. Just for clarification: are we talking about 7 individual towers or 7 tower types? I'm assuming the former, but correct me if I'm wrong.
  15. Added 3 more replays as of Aug 16, 2012. I'm going to get some chaos runs up on all starts soon.
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