Tidal/Tsunami should have auto-douse

[Guest ragnakore]

tidal/tsunami towers should have Auto-Douse ability when it is at level 10.

Right now, we have to do it manually. However, if we have a lot of them, it becomes very difficult to use.

[Cisz]

I am trying hard to make this map harder. Seems like you are heading into the opposite direction.

[Guest ragnakore]

To make it harder, disable auto-cast of spells for blacksmith, wells and all the spell casting towers.

I think it should be fair to do it that way dont you think?

I think what you meant was "Balance".

Indeed these Tidal/Tsunami towers are overpowered (like in v2) if it can auto-douse at level 10 of +90K damage

But currently they suck because we cant auto-douse and have to do so manually.

To balance, the best is to lower the douse damage and have auto-cast.

Of course some who prefer to Micro Manage would want it as-is status quo.

Why they want to micro and why I want it to autodouse are two different and opposite school of gameplay.

This is like Final Fantasy 12. It comes with the GAMBIT system that makes fight events easier; many old school players dont like this though.

I like to enjoy playing it with a strategy and not play it like a contest of hand-eye coordination game of the early 80s pacman.

[dvdlesher]

"However, if we have a lot of them, it becomes very difficult to use."

That's not true, what are group hotkey used for? For this kind of situation right?

You can even group several tsunamis and press douse, that will result in multiple douse

Now imagine this : There is one creep left and your tsunami can actually kill it without using douse, but because of that "autocast", the tower use douse from level 10 to zero again. That will be much useless...

I think it's absurd if you want to disable manual trigger, but if you want to add an "autocast" for the tower, that's okay with me

And yeah, I play FFXII (good game, but kinda bored at the almost end of the game). But on this game, I use gambits because the battle is too damn complex to be dealt alone, and wastes time and energy.... Although not virtually impossible to be manually handled actually

[Guest ragnakore]

Now imagine this : There is one creep left and your tsunami can actually kill it without using douse, but because of that "autocast", the tower use douse from level 10 to zero again. That will be much useless...

Douse is an AoE attack, it will be giving damage to an area and not just to a single creep; so using it on a hapless creep would not matter. Of course it could have spent that precious level 10 douse on the very last creep of the wave. But if the tower placements are true, then whether i spent that level 10 on an ailing 10HP creep or on a 100K HP creep would not matter.

Same goes with that Sorcery Tower of old that fires off all mana to kill a 10HP creep. Yet, it has autocast.

And my question to those who uses the sorcery tower of old version: will you manually use the mana or let it autocast?

Of course i know about "Group Hotkey".. However, can that tell me which tower has level 10? and which is Level 1? No it wont. so i have to browse through each and every one of them.. so Group Hotkey defeated and am back to playing hand-eye coordination game.

[m0rph1ing]

I think the key here is that tidal is actually much more effective if manually microed compared to letting it autocast. Even if I wanted to douse right when it hit lvl 10, that situation is at most 1/4 of the time. Most of the time, I douse at maybe 5-6 if I need the damage and save for the next wave if I don't. For magic/sorcery towers, autocast is almost always more effective than manual cast. Since magic towers recharge in between waves, it isn't really a fair comparison to tidal, which requires 3 attacks to level up. Wasting a douse can very easily kill you.

Having an autocast option sounds reasonable, even though I feel that most people would not want to use it. The default should be off though. Tidal has a tendency to max out at the wrong times.

I agree that knowing which tower is at what level would help, maybe using mana or something.

[Cisz]

After thinking about, I can see some chances here. I would never put it on autocast myself (maybe for some weird ronald hunt..), and whoever wants to won't get any benefit from it other than not having to micro, but at a terrible cost.

So autocast on 10 is cool, if and only if I can turn it off. And no, the default should be "on", as that is the beginner friendly setting. You have ages to change that.

[jolin012]

I like autocast douse on lv 10. I'd also like autocast douse upon expiringif unit is a clone. But I doubt this will happen. we have larger single tower balance issues.

[holepercent]

Having auto-douse would allow some players who are not aware of the ability realise that the tower has that ability.. when they see the spell being cast.. although some may think the casting is random.. but hopefully they would get to reading the spell text.. we've seen players who build tidals and never knew the tower had that ability and never used it..

and dousing at the right time can make or break games.. magic towers cooldown and ability time is very short, so it isn't really wasted, it'll be ready so fast and there is probably 3-4 activations per wave.. tidal at most gives you a lvl10 douse and a lower level douse before the wave passes unless there is heavy slowing.. to charge up to the lvl 10 douse probably takes one wave..

so as above, auto douse lvl 10 but the option must be there to turn it off..

[jolin012]

how does WC3 autocast work and is there a known way yet how it'd be possible iwth douse? or would we have to use an autocast workaround like with trickery?

[Karawasa]

or would we have to use an autocast workaround like with trickery?

Yes, that would be the only way. Making it autocast when it reaches level 10 is quite easy, and I can make it able to be toggled like Trickery.

[Guest Hyninn]

I disagree. Casting douse immediatelly after reaching level 10 is not always the best choice. Also, sometimes you need to cast on weaker levels to prevent certain leaks.

It would be a good idea to have a "right click to autocast" option on douse, but it should be off by default.

[Cisz]

Hyninn - As allready explained before, I am strongly opposed to making the map easier. It's ok to allow autodouse but only if it does not do a good job. The best option has to be manual douse. This map has to reward skill.

And, as allready explained before, the default has to be "on", because that's what all beginners will use. They won't understand what that button does. In fact, they won't even notice the button. And people who care and are able to micro tidal have 10 levels of douse time to switch it off.

So imo the only way to go is: Make it a little easier for people without a clue, but let the experts micro the thing as allways.

[bugbug]

Is it possible to auto-douse when x amount of creep inside the range?

[jolin012]

it might be possible, but it's not a good thing. It makes the auto douse too powerful, and thus no longer a reason to micro it yourself. you don't want the game to play for you else it's not a game, more of a movie

micro should be favored, especially with tidal. however an auto douse that sucks is ok with me, to be noob friendly, and teach those beginners how it works.

[Guest Void]

Making things harder =! Making things inconvenient. Something every good mapper should know ;]

[Karawasa]

I will implement a simple autocast system for 4.2. It will be like Trickery autocast and when on will cast ability when it reaches 10.