15th Beta Problems

[Guest DevouringOne]

In this theme every beta tester can post what's wrong in this beta vertion according to him:

There are some problems that I found while playing the game:

- The spells that you can cast on the other players can be casted on your own field(you can cast them on you I've stolen my gold by myself , and there are a lot of players that play with hot keys and cast the spell using the minimap and if they just do the wrong move they can cast the spell to themselfs. I've casted speed increasing spell to my field... I think that this must be fixed.

- Some towers can attack other towers(they aren't dealing them any dmg, but if you set wrong tharget for attack? You will think that your tower is killing creeps but instead of that it is shooting to your other towers. If you set [targets alowed just to enemy this problem will be fixed. I think ] Example:

The tower that reduces armor of the creeps can shoot at PTotE.

That's all from me .

[jolin012]

you might be right aobut the superweapons. they shouldn't be able to - by accident - cast on the caster himself.

As for attacking your own towers - i guess that won't happen unless you press A for attack and them on your own tower - which is never nessesary when attempting to attack creeps. Am i right that you used the "A" hotkey or attack button to attack your own towers? I might be wrong

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

yeah, a-clicking your own towers is possible in some weird situations.

[jolin012]

Why even click A?

Edit: I figured. perhaps you want to upgrade one tower to Quaker and one other to something else, so you:

Left Click the First tower. Attempt to click Q for quaker but misclick and make it an A click. then leftclick the other tower and begin attacking it instead of selecting it.

So sure, if it is easy to make all towers non-attackable.

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

well by "a-click" i meant "press a, then click", not "click a". =P

[Guest DevouringOne]

I click A when I leak some creep and if something happens I will burn up

And something else:

The tower that reduces the armor (Etheral tower I think) is a little weak

Corrosion tower is at least 3 times more powerful for the same gold cost...

I might be wrong but look at them both. Which one will be more useful this with AoE or single target? Corrosion reduces by 9 etheral by 5...

I think that armor reducing tower must be a little powered. Double its dmg or its armor reduction.

Or something like this first shoot reduces armor by 3 or 5 second shoot by 6,third by 7, by 8, 9, 10, 11.... this resets after 4 seconds of not attacking...

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

enchantment has AoE damage now--might make it a -little- more useful at least. remains to be seen whether the buff works enough...

[Guest DevouringOne]

Yes becouse in the old type this tower was little weak and useless.

And one more q: 3th level for dual and scond level for tripple element tower is a little cheap, isn't it?

[jolin012]

um - it is the same as it has een for like 4 betas:P and they're cheap because ti's required for build balance. however, might change a bit as we're gonna tackle build balance even more when towerbalance is closer to finished. Currently alot are imbalanced - like enchantment beeing too weak, which was just buffed, i for example have complained about polar beeing too weak for some time now.

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

autocast on polar seems much better though...? i mean actually not autocast--the ability is tied to the attack now, isn't it?

[jolin012]

you still need twice as many polar as corrosions, and corrosion as double damage and better boost too.

for the example polar, as i haven't mentioned for some time now, it needs to last longer, so that the towers at least have a chance to kill the creep within that time. perhaps 7.5 or 10 seconds, not 5. Or - perhaps 7.5 sec and very quick recharge time like 0,5 sec.

[Karawasa]

Polar Tower can certainly be increased to say 10 seconds. The nice thing about Enchantment Tower is that it lasts so long.

[Guest DevouringOne]

I think that there is still a lot of work on tower balance... because every tower with spash dmg is at least 1.20 times more powerfull than single target tower...

Pure Light ALONE can kill less Evil'Childs than Pure Earth...

Corrosion Tower with Vodoo Tower combo is at least twice more powerfull than Enchantment Tower with Laser Tower...

That is my oppinion.

[Twilice]

do you mean enchantment with polar?

Since laser isn't a support tower, but both corrosion and voodo is.

[Guest DevouringOne]

Ok enchantment and polar same cost... less effectivity

P.S. I think that pures are little cheap only 5500??? WTF is going on here they were 20000...

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

yeah single element towers are so cheap now...it's mind-boggling.

[Cisz]

The price is not important, it's the damage/gold that counts.

[m0rph1ing]

The price is important for pures/periodics, since those cost essence. Price also determines the effectiveness of the 3 support duals. The more expensive the tower, the better the support duals are.

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

price for pures i think is okay.

I would prefer amped/refined towers maybe to be a bit costlier/more damage since then sell/rebuild would be a bit more viable.

[Guest DevouringOne]

Yes there must be done some work on towers cost...

I still think that pures must become more expensive +500gold, +250 but more expensive!

If you are on Normal mode and when you have killed lv3 elemental and after that have

bought an essense[this happens when you are on lv35] and sold all your towers...

with one

single pure you can hold all levels until lv45 or more... and if you have bought another essense on lv40 two pures... at price 10000

Imagine the interest...

At public beta there wasnt almost any chance to build a pure on lv 35

last elemetal tower before pure element costs about 1500 for just three times this tower cost + 600 you got 10 times more powerful tower...

but from lv1 element tower(50gold) for five times more powerful tower you pay 2,5

times the cost of lv1 element tower and if we want to have an equilibrium we must do this:1500x5

for a pure...

[holepercent]

Anything easier than VH is for training and experimentation only..

doesn't make for good gameplay to sell everything just for a pure that early.. it would not make the endgame in VH.. 4 periodics or 4 pure water with no other towers in play can't even kill a creep at wave 56 without micro.

The price is not important, it's the damage/gold that counts.

this can be adjusted later on if it is deemed too cheap.. more importantly for now is to look at tower balance. balance in the duals and triples.

[Guest Timberwolf]

Anything easier than VH is for training and experimentation only..

The scary thing is I think there's probably a core group of about 6 game testers that actually believe this is true. The purpose of beta testing is supposed to be working out the kinks and testing game funciontality in *all modes*, not finding out how many Ronalds we can kill on VH-EX-SM. Anyone that isn't doing that by definition isn't beta testing the game.

Considering that (as a conservative estimate) 80% of your core audience for the map on battle.net probably couldn't care less about VH, and certainly won't ever care about VH-EX, it really makes no sense at all to call playing the game exclusively on that setting "beta testing".

I'm pretty certain I'm in the minority that I actually bothered to try all the different difficulties to see if the balance seemed remotely present. Which is really kind of sad.

[Guest Timberwolf]

To summarize that, I basically think it's really quite silly to dismiss the small matter of being able to get a pure so early and so cheap on lower difficulties, because if you don't think at least 50% of people regularly playing the map on battle.net public games are going to clue into that and start doing it, you're crazy. It's clearly an issue worth bringing up, and seeing if it's something we want to address. 3.0 became literally all about one of two things: mass gold towers, or windstorm. 4.0 PB had awesome balance, by comparison there was a lot of variety being seen in terms of what builds people used. So I think the discussion of what way we want to see that go is quite relevant. Even if it doesn't apply to the handful of people that have to find new ways to attack VH just to keep themselves interested.

[jolin012]

The problem is that VH can beat the game using only 2 elements (aka pure essences). We do Not want pures to be less powerfull(as in cost effective) than t3 duals unkless nessesary, and of course not less powerful than t2 stuff. Neither do we want to lower the cost of them so that they are no longer the most expensive tower. say, shall we make less pure essences available to buy?

perhaps pure should be really powerful, but require essence to be bought (aka none given for free) and max like 2 essences.

I'm not sure what would be to solve the current problem of pure essence build(2ele build) being too strong compared to how easy it is to play.

[Karawasa]

I'll try and summarize my development philosophy regarding balance.

It starts with the fact that VH is the mode to focus on (not exclusively though) because that is the mode where balance problems become most apparent (and matter the most since there is usually competition at this level). When looking below VH, I don't go for perfect balance as much as I aim for minimal imbalances. The game is being played casually, and thus eliminating the blatant imbalances is more important than the tweaks. For instance, no one is really going to notice if say Ice Tower is 5-10% overpowered in Normal mode. They will notice though if Pures/Periodics are blatantly overpowered (which is what it sounds like), and this I agree is something that needs to be addressed.

Now no imbalances other than global (group) ones should be present in lower difficulties. What I mean by this, is if we get VH balanced then logic tells us that lower difficulty micro balance should right on as well. What it does not tell us is if the game is macro balanced on these lower modes. Pures/Periodics were pointed out as imbalanced as a group of towers, no one is saying that Fire is better than Water on N compared to VH.