Ronald System Change

[jolin012]

I came to think of a different way to run the ronald system. a more competetive one. it currently feels like "hm, in this game i can't run any slow i want, except for ronald, there i can take the time i need, preferably more than my opponent cares to wait"

My idea is: instead of each player having 30 ronalds on his field, one replacing every dead, it should start with 30 ronalds each. and for every x ronalds killed(in total, meaning all players together kill x ronalds) (x being the number of players) every playeer gets one new ronald at full health.

This means, if there are 7 players, of which one player quickly kill 7 ronalds, he, and everyone else gets one new. meaning the quick player has 24 ronalds in his maze, and the others have 31 each. It would be very rare for a player to run out of ronalds i think, and if so it wouldn't last very long. it just gives the faster player the chance to still rush, even in ronald stage.

If there are 2 players on ronald, which sounds more common, it means for every 2 ronalds you kill you get one back and one sent to the opponent. meaning you have 29 ronalds and he has 31 on his field. if you kill one and your opponent one, you both get one each back.

The victory condition would still be most ronalds killed.

What do you think?

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

but that still doesn't change it for single player =(

[Guest DevouringOne]

You can try this:

First: Ronald to have some regeneration (500hp per sec) with every upgrade add (500 more)

Second: on upgrade number 10 to be added reincarnation to all Ronalds;

Third: Ronalds with Avatar(for 3 sec) on upgrade 15.

I think that this will make Ronald more competitive: regeneration won't make Ronald very different from original one but if this reaches 7500? wow that will become more harder (especially if you leak some)

+ some reincarnation and Avatar ronalds will become very, very good .

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

regeneration favors builds that have concentrated DPS sources, such as a few pures, much more than builds that use masses of not-quite-as-powerful towers. Also makes ST/longrange towers more effective somewhat.

reincarnation is basically giving them more life but also making them a tiny bit slower.

"avatar" is kind of vague. if you're saying it dispells all buffs, then again that changes the balance of things, probably even more drastically than the above two.

[Cisz]

I agree to kirby. Fancy abilities tend to be very unfair to varied builds, so as a result people will play only a few strategies for ronald. We are trying to promote the use of many different playstyles.

I like the idea of jolin012.

Some thoughts: The total number of ronalds on the map would be constant, just like it is in 4pb, they would only be distributed differently. Also the very extreme case would be a player that actually clears all of his ronalds. Wouldn't that lead to him wating for a while untils someone else kills some ronalds? I would consider a "I have no ronalds left" scenario a win, so I don't think this has to be prevented.

[Twilice]

I can only se positive things from this.

And I aswell can't se the negativ from the "I have no ronnies left"

But what if a player dies/leaves??

Then there might be a big mega spawn of ronnies. (d00m )

But I also think it should be like this:

Classic mode / Survivor mode = Jolins new idea

Ronald Hunt = current mode.

Also I don't think ronalds should be so very different between very easy and very hard, imagin that all players on very easy has no ronnies and the one on very hard has all.

And also to prevent all 20K on very easy...

[Cisz]

When a player dies, 30 ronnies get substracted from the pool. What if he had less than 30 on his map? Kill other ronnies randomely? Or have a few more, but stop spawning ronnies till we are down to 30 x players again?

Good point with the mixed diff. Again ballance is really hard for mixed diff.

[holepercent]

this would make for more exciting multiplayer hunts.. but it doesn't affect single player.. which isn't really what some want as ronald hunts shouldn't take hours..

no ronalds left=player win.. it's pretty hard to kill so fast until there's none left in the area..

about players leaving... the more correct one is temporary stop spawning until the number is 30 X players.. then continue spawning..

what about alternating undead, mechnical, healing, fast ronalds (ignore this.. lol)

[Guest DevouringOne]

Or every ronald that is killed will respawn with some weak random ability from these( speed, mana shield, regeneration, reincarnation, blink, miss chance, etc.)? Activating the respawned ronald random ability can be triggered to start on every 3 killed ronnies or five... that will add some action to ronald hunting, and you won't know what ability will be added to the respawned ronald, until your towers face it.

[Cisz]

DevouringOne - I don't like abilities like that. They either just grant health, so they are a way to cause lag without adding anything new (with all the glowing and humming). Or they affect different builds differently. Blinking ronalds are much harder with a slow/splash combo than with a long range build. If ronald is to hard or to easy overall, we can simply change the hp. Remember what blinking can do to the builds: It would reduce the number of valid strategies of the map.

I assume you want the ronald stage to become more interesting, right? Maybe play jolin012 on vh sr and ask yourself if you can stand any more excitement. I know it makes me sweat.

But seriously, the game allready tends to lag, so if new effects don't add anything really impressive, you will have problems getting support for better looks. Maybe exchange ronald models, that could be a way of changing the appearance w/o the lagging. But then, ronald is ofc an old tradition in tds.

[jolin012]

but that still doesn't change it for single player =(

That is true. But how are you going to be competetive.. to yourself?

With "more competetive" i also mean more interaction with eachother and rushing in ronald stage.

no ronalds left=player win..

Would this be unnessesary as the overwhelmed player allready suffers enough? or is it a way to end the game for veryeasy Players who kill all their ronalds? My point is - if they all kill all their roanlds, but one kills 10% faster. (playing area 4 doesn't nessesarily mean faster than 3, as ronalds killed/min counts too). if one kills faster that'd mean sooner or later he has actually ran out of ronnies.

shall we call it a win?

btw, I'm glad to hear so much positive responces to this new ronald system.

But I also think it should be like this:

Classic mode / Survivor mode = Jolins new idea

Ronald Hunt = current mode.

but for this, I'm sorry that I'd have to disagree - we allready have too many dialog boxes - unless we add "advanced options" dialog box. or make it a command to return to the PB ronald system "-ronald solo" or something.

[electronX]

The Ronald system introduced in the first post would not balance but make differences even larger.

Say, you're fast and kill all the 30 ronalds while the others kill no one (say you have tons of pures, whatever). Then you will only be spawn 1 ronald for 1 average kill of everyone (who are very slow at the moment as their damage is even more spread along ronalds), while you will only have 2-3 ronalds running around.

Just build 5 pure natures at pos 784, somewhere around. You will never have more than 2.

Of course this is not likely soon, but, as soon as your Ronald count tends to go down, you will have more concentrated damage, less leaks. It may even happen that you run out of ronalds (you kill your last, the opponent does not, and dies leaking) and your game never ends.

This would prefer players who are able to kill more Ronalds quickly (i.e. who have high tier towers).

However, I could agree with a solution like this one. If any player's Ronald count gets under 30, 1 ronald is spawned to everyone. So the fastest still has the minimum count but the others can get spammed (and enjoy AoE).

[Cisz]

If any player's Ronald count gets under 30, 1 ronald is spawned to everyone.

Does not work. Imagine, one player kills ronalds one by one, while the others don't. So player 1 has still 30 ronalds, while the others go up to infinite. This is called lagging.

The OP would lead to this: The ronald stage would become an unstable thing, where a slight advantage on one side would be enlarged and turned into an even bigger advantage. So the rich get richer, no recovering included. I understand this as "the ronald stage gets a lot shorter". What's wrong with that? Or did I miss something?

[jolin012]

First of all electronX, your system with 1-8 (1 per player) ronnies per ronnie killed would not work. infinite ronnies for no reason.

Mine might've sounded like a "the rich gets richer" concept to make the game end faster. That's not the case. It is a way to encourage the players to keep a quick strategy, and not give the slowbuildplayers extra strength.

[pre:2f9fhmwb][/pre:2f9fhmwb]Currently, The slow builds, gain extra strength at ronald. Longrange towers that usually have time to attack until area 3 or 6, now gets extra time, to attack until area 8, whereas they are balanced to deal fair enough of damage if attacking until area 6. even worse - it is Good to not aim for the 2% hp creep at area 4 with my impulse towers. It is better currently to wait for him to reach area "-" before i finish him off, to get more time, because ronald timing is currently like single player mode. One could argue that "hey this is also strategy" but - I say no, the slow towers have damage for a limited amount of time to attack, and why not let ppl interact on each other on the last part of the game where it is the final duel between the remaining players.

For those who didn't understand why magic/hail at area 89 and longrange towers and slowing towers get extra power on ronald, that is because, they have a little higher Top prestanda than others, but are threatened by the lack of time by a racing opponent. (for example longrange towers never have time to use their full range up to area "-" as the opponent finishes the wave earlier if for example playing a quicker tower like quaker at 5 or zealout at 4. However, in the current ronald system, there is No interaction between players. a player can take any time he needs to finish his creep. He would never be able in the regular MP(multiplayer) tempo to use slowing towers to slow down creep the entire maze and use longrange towers to attack a creep for over 100, perhaps 150 seconds.

There is no negative in my idea here - and doesn't require alot of work either i guess. Try to tackle me again

[Guest DevouringOne]

Or may be something like this: 15 ronald spawns for everyone;

And if there is player that kills them very fast and easy five more to be added for him not for all(For all 3 more to be added). And this tendention to be kept until that player stops killing them so fast...The fastest player will continue triggering the game but not forever. And with 15 ronald spawns there won't be so much lag. And if there is no increasment of spawn count or it is less than 20 for first 3 or 5 ronald upgrades - automatic increasment to 20 and for 7th upgrade the same but incrasment to 30.(In that way every player that isn't very good in this game would die and just pros will survive to 30 ronald count with no lag becouse there won't be 8 players in the game.) And the finally on the last upgrade ronald spawns to become 40 this would be harder.

[jolin012]

So basicly you sugguest the amount of ronalds to increase over time. Tell me why?

As for my ronald system that is not just to make a change or to make it harder. it is to not make slow builds overpowered and player racing interaction removed for ronald - but i must say i dont catch the point in yours

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

i know your goal is to make more "racing" oriented builds viable in the ronald round, but keep in mind that some "slow" builds are actually worse off as is (correct me if i'm wrong, my theorycraft might be off). Assuming a constant stream of ronalds, builds that rely on long-range towers (gunpowder, i'm looking at you) are worse off, since the long range is no longer an advantage. A build that is instead based on quaker towers will still always be firing (since there is a constant stream of ronalds) and the dps would be much higher.

just make sure you take it in to consideration.

[jolin012]

yes, often short range towers are firing all teh time during ronald too. but - as i mentioned in the current ronald it's good to kill them as late as possible, and kill late as possible can only long range towers are magic/hail at 9 do. technically, other towers could do too - but I doubt there is anyone who builds his short range towers at area 8 and survives until ronald without getting raced - meaning long range is overpowered at ronald currently.

And saying "slow builds are bad as it is" I would say then simply that they need a buff if that is the case^^ not that they should be powerful on ronald only and bad in main game.

[Cisz]

Dev - I have to disagree. 15 ronalds will favour st builds again. Aoe/splash/slow based buils need many targets.

[Guest DevouringOne]

Gays I think that you have to call "The high Council" to solve the "Ronalds System Change"

Because this problem becomes more "Minior" than expected

P.S: The core of my idea was: Fast Builders that have controled the game now to get hard ronald kills but the maximum ronnie spawn to be 40. And if there were some brave ones in the game that had played on slow, and entire game they have to fight more creeps than others, to have some rest at the end, untill the ronald spawn count automatically hit 40. And what i've forgotten: This to be applayed only on VE, E, and N modes...And there must be some interesting Ronald Hunt...not only on H or VH

[Cisz]

Um, anything under hard is for beginners, right?

[Guest DevouringOne]

Yes and harder ronald will make them to non stop playing untill they kill more than 5000of them ... this will be the trick of making more clients

[Karawasa]

The way the game checks player count isn't that efficient, and so implementing this change would, in my opinion, cause additional performance strain. I'm not sold on the idea though...

I don't think Ronald hunting should be about racing. It should be about seeing who has the most robust defense to hold off the legions of death. Consider also that I plan on implementing an alternative end-game scenario, that being race mode.

Race mode would give you a point everytime you finish a round first. At the end of level 60, whoever has the most points wins (i.e. no Ronald).

Edit: Upon second thought this way may actually be preferable. I should be able to make it work, and then it negates the need for Race Mode (and hence another dialog box). Nice thinking jolin012!

[echinodermata]

I kinda like the idea of race mode. Deciding a game with endless ronalds doesn't make much sense. Maybe race mode should replace ronalds altogether in multiplayer. Or not. In any case it does not deserve another pop-up at the beginning of the game.

One small detail: race mode will have to have a level 61, composite with hp based on the same growth model for all the other levels, to be used when a tiebreaker is necessary. For level 61, the creeps should be... ronalds.

[jolin012]

thanks for feedback . hoping to see it implemented for try:) and it's not aobut just awarding racing. it's about negating overpower by slow builds, and well, i allready posted about that^^