Team Mode

[jolin012]

In the IRC Today there came someone who asked for good td maps. "Element TD ofc" is what i said, but he was looking for a team TD because that was more fun in his opinion.

And ofcourse some people think so - so why shall we not have that? as a funmode?

How about a "Team Mode" which does this:

Put all builders in the same Maze. Multiply Creep Hp by the number of players still in the game. (if one player leaves his towers will be destroyed, creep hp lowered and no gold will he be able to send before leaving.)

Elemental Powers are shared( meaning all players in a team can build same towers) and gold from kills will give gold to each player meaning 1gold each creep to each player on lvl 1 (won't help for the one who builds closest to entrance) and interest(meaning the one who doesn't build towers won't get more cash) is splitted.

lumber is recieved by one player at a time. One random player recieves the 1st lumber (at lv 5). one random player recieves the 2nd lumber (at lv 10) etc, etc.

perhaps this can also teach players to sell their unnessesary towers, as place will lack if they keep spamming stupid towers <!-- s:P --><!-- s:P --> . Wouldn't require extra dialogbox as it can't be combined with SuperWeapons. unless we allow several teams vs each other ofcourse.

(If mode is tested in betas and it appears that there is too little buildspace. perhaps only 8 good slots for a quakertower and if there are 4 players in team with 4x creep health 20 quakers need to be build, thjen that's a problem. If that appears to be a bad thing - all towers could have a size of 1x1 instead of 2x2 perhaps. or perhaps deal 4x damage at regular cost - making every 4th kill give gold to each player.)

what do you think?

Edit: Thanks for pointng out kaini about the gold. there is ofcourse full gold to all players in a team as creep have increased strength. edits marked with Italic text

[echinodermata]

I think it'll work. A few details might have to be worked out.

But team vs. team: that could be even better.

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

would be great if it's feasible to implement. details may be tricky but any type of team game is great, as there is more direct interaction than just "I wonder how everyone's doing..oh look, jolin finally leaked 1..." =P

[dvdlesher]

Hmm... What about the map?

-Isn't the terrain going to be altered if we select team mode?

-Are you suggesting we should play on someone's player field? If so, then wouldn't be very crowded if 1 player field used by (at least) 2 player?

This is the only thought in mind I got when I read this... Although, I think this is a nice idea to be implemented

So... Should we change Element TD Survivor -> Element TD Team Survivor ?

[echinodermata]

Having 2-4 people on the same player field shouldn't be too bad.

[dvdlesher]

Having 2-4 people on the same player field shouldn't be too bad.

it would be chaotic if it were true I guess...

People starting to make their own territory, and expanding until the whole map is completely filled with low level towers..

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

chaotic = fun

maybe not if you're with some random person who doesn't know the slightest thing about what he's doing though, xD

[Twilice]

This sounds nice. But should it be a new mode, or a new seperal map?

[holepercent]

Element TD Team Survivor.. 2 teams of 4 against each other.. or 3 teams of 3..

team maps are always fun and sometimes chaotic.. but it can demand good organisation. like playing burb with 2 players.. but probably not something like the green series TDs..

but this would probably mean a redesign of the terrian. i would be interested if it's a burb td style of map..

or we could 'borrow' the idea from switch td where players switch lane after every wave.. maybe after every 5 waves, every player moves to the next area and takes over everything in that area but takes his elements along with him. in that way, pros can fix bad builds while making the game a team effort. although that probably would be a guaranteed 6-element build.. but anyway.. would be fun in a 4v4 or 3v3v3..

another issue is how would leaks be handled.. lives are lost and the creeps make their way through the start of the path again?

all gold shared doesn't really seem that attractive.. those who do well may not want to continue as they are not rewarded for playing well.. but at the same time, the weak players should not be penalised by not getting any gold.. maybe something like a 70/30 split where the player who kills the creep gets a bit more but everyone still gets some gold for every creep kill.

[Kaini]

That mode has got a big problem:

In normal Element TD you save money to update you towers. But you can't do that in team mode.

Simple formular: 1x Tier2 >> 2x Tier1

And a little problem: The first rounds give only 1 gold.

[jolin012]

Oh - I forgot to mention, the gold is not just shared. for lvl 1 for example, 1 gold is given to each player in the team. the 4x creep health makes up for that.

Thanks for pointing out kaini - edited first post. All clear and good now?

[Guest Timberwolf]

I would much rather see a top vs. bottom team game than one where multiple people were jammed into one section. Have the creeps be stronger, and leak from one teammate's area into another. You can either have them (1) only cost lives by leaking all the way to the right, which is functional but puts undue pressure on the player on the far right, or (2) have them cost lives if they leak over 2 maps which is much more workable and makes for a simple hitpoint adjustment.

Either would be better than stuffing me into a map with a bunch of other people, which would probably result in me taking a quick menu/end game trip.

I'm not a huge fan of team maps to begin with as they generally produice incredible amounts of terribly rude crap any time a new player has the audacity to join a game. Green TD is totally unplayable on battle.net due to the strange troll-creatures that play it regularly. But if you're going to do it, I would much rather go with my option 2 than anything else.

[jolin012]

everyone must not use the mode ofcourse - most of the more skilled players would give up playing team mode (as soon as they got skilled) i would guess.

I like your team mode idea in one way. what i dont' like is the feeling of beeing plaer 1 and not killing anything x). and the waiting - unless ofcourse, "once first creep leaks next wave arrives" or something like that, so everyone in the tea has one wave in (the best would perhaps be something like "one wave is released when the wave before the wave before the wave before is killed by any team"( meaning - if wave 4-7 are in, wave 8 is released when wave 4 is killed by one team)- each having one different wave. I am against life costs for leaking the creep through maps, other than from one player to. The boring part - as soon as one team has rather good power it will only need 3 players to finish off its wave - one player can't do anything.

I like your idea - ad i don't like it. overall i must say i like mine more the "4th player doesn't get to play" factor hurts the idea pretty hard. perhaps this could be an alternative to teammote - but i would honestly vote no..

[jolin012]

I've put my mind together - and a new day of thinking, and I decided to clear things out - and present to you the changes.

Team Mode

First of all, the host selects (can ofc chose vote) Team mode. After that he selects how the team are going to be. That could be anything from 2vs2vs2 or 4vs4 to 4vs2vs1 or 3vs5. The Builders will be teleported to the maze they should play in. Team 1 plays in maze 1. team 2 in maze 2, team 3 in 3, team 4 in 4 etc, if there area more than 1 team. The host also selects whether it is team shared elements for all, separate elements for all, or if each team decides themselves. of course host can chose vote on this question.

The creep hp will not be changed but the gold in a team of many players will be splited.

How? Either, the gold will be split per kill, but that would make 0,25g or 0,33g in some cases and that would not work in the early game where 1 kill, 1g is splited on 5, everyone rounding his gained cash down to 0. This system would only work if there is a way to store info such as "i currently have 0,75 extra gold"(player wouldn't have to know, perhaps the ele summoning center has 75 mana or something that cannot be seen at all) so that the next time I share 3 gold with my 4 teammates, I get 1 gold.

If that gold system does not work/requires lot of work or causes alot of space or lag, there is another simple way. Every Xth kill that the team does (x being the number of players in my team) I get the bounty for the kill. in a team of 4 i get gold frrom every 4th kill my team does, and this way the gold per kill is not divided by 4, it is given to the player who's turn it is to get the money.

If "Separated Elements" is selected every player in the team will get his own elements, allowed to build those towers. His elementals will have their hp divided by X(x still being the number of players in his team). This features cool stuff, if the team teamworks and decides that 4 of 5 players shall select interest by lvl 15, the 5th player can select a lvl 3 elemental and together they can hunt it down. however - only that player with only his gold, has access to the Earth tier 3 tower (if it was earth3). In samerandom mode every team gets the same sets of elements. for example player 1 in each team could get FNE$LLDWWNNN and every player 2 in each team get a different set of elements.

Pure essences is another small detail. Those will perhaps be limited to "buy max 3 extra per team" and the 2 pure essences at lv 52 and 56 will be decided by the team of who shall get them. because the team shall not have 8 essences and base their entire defense on pures. but they can if they are wise decided that the one who has either periodic or lvl 3 ele available shall have the essence.

Interest - another detail. Interest given is a Xth of everyone in the teams spare gold. meaning if I don't build anything at all, and let my friends kill, I will get only a 4th of the extra interest that causes. However - if I pick(or random) an extra investment, then I get my gained interest increased by 0,75% (or was it 1%?)

Shared Team Elements

If team Elements are chosen to be shared that means that everyone in a team will use the same elements. Every Xth lumber is given to each player in a team (if it is not random mode) and that element becomes available to everyone in the team.

The elemental bosses on shared elements are at full hp, because there is only 1, and not X of it summoned.

Interest is the same as on separate elements.

In SameRandom Mode all teams get the same set of elements. In AR they all get different.

[Kaini]

First of all, the host selects (can ofc chose vote) Team mode. After that he selects how the team are going to be. That could be anything from 2vs2vs2 or 4vs4 to 4vs2vs1 or 3vs5. The Builders will be teleported to the maze they should play in. Team 1 plays in maze 1. team 2 in maze 2, team 3 in 3, team 4 in 4 etc, if there area more than 1 team. The host also selects whether it is team shared elements for all, separate elements for all, or if each team decides themselves. of course host can chose vote on this question.

Hm do you think imbalaced teams work? Sounds a bit unfair in the first moment.

The creep hp will not be changed but the gold in a team of many players will be splited.

How? Either, the gold will be split per kill, but that would make 0,25g or 0,33g in some cases and that would not work in the early game where 1 kill, 1g is splited on 5, everyone rounding his gained cash down to 0. This system would only work if there is a way to store info such as "i currently have 0,75 extra gold"(player wouldn't have to know, perhaps the ele summoning center has 75 mana or something that cannot be seen at all) so that the next time I share 3 gold with my 4 teammates, I get 1 gold.

If that gold system does not work/requires lot of work or causes alot of space or lag, there is another simple way. Every Xth kill that the team does (x being the number of players in my team) I get the bounty for the kill. in a team of 4 i get gold frrom every 4th kill my team does, and this way the gold per kill is not divided by 4, it is given to the player who's turn it is to get the money.

Better idea: the gold of the first chreep goes to Alice the gold of the secound cheep to Bob and so on. If the wave ends the order will not be reset. (3 Players; If last gold of the round got Bob - the first gold of the next round will got to Carol)

...His elementals will have their hp divided by X(x still being the number of players in his team)...

Maybe don't divide their HP to make it a bit more interresting. (Aka the team has to speak - if everybody summones the element at the same moment.... )

Pure essences is another small detail. Those will perhaps be limited to "buy max 3 extra per team" and the 2 pure essences at lv 52 and 56 will be decided by the team of who shall get them. because the team shall not have 8 essences and base their entire defense on pures. but they can if they are wise decided that the one who has either periodic or lvl 3 ele available shall have the essence.

Why that? I think pures will be very very expensive in team mode. (I assume there is no gold transfer) because in a normal game you've got a networth around 50.000 gold in wave 50+. But in teame mode the gold is split -> every one has got only 50.000/x gold! And saving money is difficult in that mode too.

Interest - another detail. Interest given is a Xth of everyone in the teams spare gold. meaning if I don't build anything at all, and let my friends kill, I will get only a 4th of the extra interest that causes. However - if I pick(or random) an extra investment, then I get my gained interest increased by 0,75% (or was it 1%?)

I can't unterstand the first sentence

All the others things sounds very cool

[jolin012]

Hm do you think imbalanced teams work? Sounds a bit unfair in the first moment.

Because every team has the same net worth I think it can be fairly equal. But I guess in most cases that will not be chosen

Better idea: the gold of the first chreep goes to Alice the gold of the second cheep to Bob and so on. If the wave ends the order will not be reset. (3 Players; If last gold of the round got Bob - the first gold of the next round will got to Carol)

I think that's exactly what i meant with the second idea for how to sread cash. every Xth kill, meaning every third in team of 3, will be awarded to you. meaning first bounty to alice, second bounty to bob, third bounty to carol, and ofc no reset on wave end. Good thinking - we figured the same thing but you explained it better

Maybe don't divide their HP to make it a bit more interresting. (Aka the team has to speak - if everybody summones the element at the same moment.... )

I was thinking that too first, but it's a bit brutal, 4 full hp bosses at lvl 5? and I don't like the fact that they have to summon one boss every level instead of at lvl 5, 10 and so just to avoid the strength. but perhaps we could make the elementals a bit harder if we find during betas that in team mode they should be stronger. perhaps they are first divided their health by X (4 if 4 in team) and then (X-1) times the hp will be increased by 20%

example: one 5000hp boss if one player playing in a team.

two (2500+20%=)3000hp bosses if two players playing in a team.

five: five 2000hp bosses if five players playing in a team.

Why that? I think pures will be very very expensive in team mode. (I assume there is no gold transfer) because in a normal game you've got a networth around 50.000 gold in wave 50+. But in teame mode the gold is split -> every one has got only 50.000/x gold! And saving money is difficult in that mode too.

A networth is Always above 30-40k at level 52. and usually 7 of those are then spent on a pure. if everyone in a team of 4 gets a pure essence that means theey can build 4 pures, putting 29k of their 30-40k on pures. I think this could be unfair. the team shall only have 2 free pure essences I think. Do you understand? do you agree? Remember that this discussion as well as the other small ones I and Kaini are discussing are just details. it's not like the entire idea of the mode will blow up if everyone's not agreed.

Interest - another detail. Interest given is a Xth of everyone in the teams spare gold. meaning if I don't build anything at all, and let my friends kill, I will get only a 4th of the extra interest that causes. However - if I pick(or random) an extra investment, then I get my gained interest increased by 0,75% (or was it 1%?)

I can't unterstand the first sentence

I basicly meant, your interest gained is the avarage of you and your teammates unspent cash, multiplied by your interest rate.

Example: so if you have 100 unspent gold, bob has 220 unspent gold, carol has 20 unspent gold and Alice has 460 unspent gold then that avarages 200 gold. if you have a interest rate of 2% and carol has one of 4% then you will get 4 gold interest given to you and carol will get 8 gold interest given to her.

All the others things sounds very cool

Good to hear, I and all my mates are hoping/looking forward to see the mode aswell

[holepercent]

Team mode is a fun idea.. As the discussion goes, all will have to agree on various changes.. and more importantly, balance.

Gold is good but is there a way to reward the 'better' players? That way, the stronger players might leave leaving the weaker/noobs behind if gold was even as they do not get extra for contributing to the team. It can be someone doesn't build at all/spams low-damage towers, kills nothing but still gets gold. . Noobs should not be penalised too much but there should be rewards for skill and playing well..

A team limit of 2 pures should be good. >4 free essences for pures seem too strong..

but what about overcrowing? and how would the area be split among the players?

[Kaini]

Gold is good but is there a way to reward the 'better' players? That way, the stronger players might leave leaving the weaker/noobs behind if gold was even as they do not get extra for contributing to the team. It can be someone doesn't build at all/spams low-damage towers, kills nothing but still gets gold. . Noobs should not be penalised too much but there should be rewards for skill and playing well..

........

but what about overcrowing? and how would the area be split among the players?

Communication Team mode isn't very easy in public games - because they have to work togehter.

Hm do you think imbalanced teams work? Sounds a bit unfair in the first moment.

Because every team has the same net worth I think it can be fairly equal. But I guess in most cases that will not be chosen

True

Maybe don't divide their HP to make it a bit more interresting. (Aka the team has to speak - if everybody summones the element at the same moment.... )

I was thinking that too first, but it's a bit brutal, 4 full hp bosses at lvl 5? and I don't like the fact that they have to summon one boss every level instead of at lvl 5, 10 and so just to avoid the strength. but perhaps we could make the elementals a bit harder if we find during betas that in team mode they should be stronger. perhaps they are first divided their health by X (4 if 4 in team) and then (X-1) times the hp will be increased by 20%

example: one 5000hp boss if one player playing in a team.

two (2500+20%=)3000hp bosses if two players playing in a team.

five: five 2000hp bosses if five players playing in a team.

I thnik it is too early to discuss that now - we have to test that.

Why that? I think pures will be very very expensive in team mode. (I assume there is no gold transfer) because in a normal game you've got a networth around 50.000 gold in wave 50+. But in teame mode the gold is split -> every one has got only 50.000/x gold! And saving money is difficult in that mode too.

A networth is Always above 30-40k at level 52. and usually 7 of those are then spent on a pure. if everyone in a team of 4 gets a pure essence that means theey can build 4 pures, putting 29k of their 30-40k on pures. I think this could be unfair. the team shall only have 2 free pure essences I think. Do you understand? do you agree? Remember that this discussion as well as the other small ones I and Kaini are discussing are just details. it's not like the entire idea of the mode will blow up if everyone's not agreed.

Hm you are right. In random the players could simply sell the towers and build pures. But in pick is is getting very difficult.

Maybe you are right... Random is more important than pick.

Interest - another detail. Interest given is a Xth of everyone in the teams spare gold. meaning if I don't build anything at all, and let my friends kill, I will get only a 4th of the extra interest that causes. However - if I pick(or random) an extra investment, then I get my gained interest increased by 0,75% (or was it 1%?)

I can't unterstand the first sentence

I basicly meant, your interest gained is the avarage of you and your teammates unspent cash, multiplied by your interest rate.

Example: so if you have 100 unspent gold, bob has 220 unspent gold, carol has 20 unspent gold and Alice has 460 unspent gold then that avarages 200 gold. if you have a interest rate of 2% and carol has one of 4% then you will get 4 gold interest given to you and carol will get 8 gold interest given to her.

Ahhh ok agree. I really like that idea, because that means more teamwork!

[jolin012]

Communication Team mode isn't very easy in public games - because they have to work togehter.

True

I thnik it is too early to discuss that now - we have to test that.

Hm you are right. In random the players could simply sell the towers and build pures. But in pick is is getting very difficult.

Maybe you are right... Random is more important than pick.

Ahhh ok agree. I really like that idea, because that means more teamwork!

Agreed with everything except perhaps "random is more important than pick" that's not exactly what I mean. I just mean that separated lumber is more of a fun mode is ap. Playing pick on separate lumber there would very likely be one or several overpowered team build for each number of players, which could however be a fun way to make a teammode challange like "fastest game with a team of 8 players" (or 6 players or less ofc). Separated lumber SR would be fun however, same goes for separated AR which would be more luck based ofc, just like normal AR.

Gamename codes: Team Mode=TM Shared elements=SE Individual Elements=IE. number of teams: 4v4, 2v2v2 etc.

Example: ElementTD -NSrTmSwSe4v4 or EleTD N SR SW TM SE 4v4

Perhaps TM isn't nessesarily needed for everyone on the forum, because SE/IE tells that there is TM, but, this is most important for the pub players to use - therefore it is better to use TM - easier to understand it that way.

[Cisz]

Do I get this right: A team with separate lumber plays with 11 x number of players lumber? So they can combine ice age and witchcraft, waterfall, eidolon and foundry in one game?

[jolin012]

in AP yep, that's right. In the aspect of experienced players who know how to form the best builds, the game gets alot easier.

There are many new features if playing individual elements. one is what you mentioned, combining for example eidolon with waterfall or incantation with hydrochloric. another is that one player can max earth at lvl 15 if others pick elementals easy to kill or interest. So yes AP TM IE is more like AP in PB where there is just one strongest build. for those who have figured that, well they can play IE SR or IE AR or SE.

If we do consider it a problem and want it away, we could make up restrictions that made it disallowed to use some things. one way would be to give less lumber/player in a team. perhaps 6 lumber each in a team of 4. One other way could be to make some restrictions by increasing the price of certain elementals, as in cost several lumber, how many would be dependant on team members and only for TM IE.

[Cisz]

How about me playing vs 6. Could you plz ballance that?

[jolin012]

Well, IE is more alike 3.0, meaning it only works on SR unless only players who don't know are playing.

But because IE would be overplayerd and make players not learn the proper map balanced it would probably be better to just skip it. SE is fair, and more equal between number of players /team, meaning it works to play alone in a TM game if ya dont' like team mode.

[jolin012]

ok, you are right, we don't want a mode where proper map balance doesn't work out. as cisz said more than 11lumber cannot be in play in the same maze. meaning Shared Elements works but IE does not.

However, TimberWolf's sugguestion could work out with a few modifications. how about this: Keep SE(shared Elements) but rename it to SD(shared defense(sm is shortmode)) and add the other type of team mode called ID(individual defense).

SD is the same as explained before, all in one maze withshared elements. the only change I make here and now is that instead of a Xth of the gold for each kill to each player, there will be full bounty to every player for each kill. and creep hp is multiplied by X. if a player leaves creep hp is changed to be multiplied by the "New X"(new number of players). (the net worth of the player who left is given to teammates. and towers destroyed) this solves the pure essence problem and the "0.20cent awarded" problem, but the SE teammates have to keep placement in mind as there is not much room if they don't cooperate.

ID

All players of a team stay in their former Maze. Everyone has their Own lumber. Creep hp is multiplied by X (X beeing the number of players in team). Creep spawn in player 1's maze and once they leak they enter the maze of player 2 in team. If they leak the last players' maze then the team loses a [pre:3lqmkpku]life.

While[/pre:3lqmkpku]there are (most likely) X elementals spawned, the Elemental hp is not multiplied by x, like the creep hp is.

Gold for any kill in team is given (full bounty) to every player in team. Interest works just like in SD. Healing units healing rate is divided by 1.5X or 2X (x beeing the number or team members). why 1.5 or 2X and not just X?, well because if it steps through several mazes there is a much larger time to regenerate, which is rather unfair.

There is a damage counter, so it should be possible to determine when a Xth of the 30 creeps altogether max hp is lost (for example either 15 of them dead or all at 50% hp in a team of 2). And when a Xth of hp is lost of a wave, that counts as Wave killed, Aka, Timer starts for next wave, unless someone already started it.

IT would be boring for the last player in a team to not get any creep unless on composite +classification waves. therefore it, if it works, should be like, every 10 waves, the players switch locations. player 1->2 2->3 etc. Either the towers in a maze change color - to the one who moved there, and the spared gold stays to the maze. Or - the player and his towers(and cash) changes maze. is any of the 2 codeable?

[echinodermata]

ID: Individual Team Defense (kind of an oxymoron )

My concern is that if you're on a four player team, one fourth of the time there's going to be no creeps in your maze. Wouldn't it be boring for all four players, not just the last one?