Karawasa

I'm glad to see you guys are doing some sort of tower ranking. Perhaps start a new thread for doing the duals and then the triples. These kind of player feedback power rankings are great for adjusting balance based on feel. We have supposedly gotten the mathcraft finished, so now it is time to tweak.

Unfortunately for healing there is no convenient or practical way to do 1.5%. The consensus appears to be reverting it to 1%, which is fine by me. I think I'll also do the same for fast waves, i.e. 375 to 350.

Bumping this topic in light of B13c.

I stumbled upon a purple button theme, it is attached below.

If you like the background image but don't want the gray buttons, all you have to do is delete this folder: C:\Program Files\Warcraft III\UI\Widgets I've attached the files for the gray button theme. If anyone wants to try and figure out how to modify it, that would be much appreciated.

I have updated the original post with a new download. @lesher: Check the C:\Program Files\Warcraft III\UI\Glues\MainMenu\MainMenu3d_exp directory. Delete MainMenu1.tga and MainMenu.tga and upload the attached MainMenu.tga file to that directory.

Check it out: Interested? Simply download the attached archive. Unzip it in your default WC3 directory. Double click and run CUSTOMBG.reg. If you want to undo it simply delete the UI folder.

Updated:

This even quicker release fixes two bugs found in B13b. Changelog: -Fixed the countdown being 0 on H and VH -Fixed the insta-kill of elemental bosses

This quick release comes as a touch up for B13. Changelog: -Countdown changed to 30/22/15/9/4 from 20/16/12/8/4 -Element bosses now have correct max hp -Fixed element bosses to not register as a kill when leaked -Fixed Oblivion/Necromancy model sizes -Fixed Sunburn buff tootltip -Ice tower now at 1.5 speed and 300 damage -Quark tower changed to 0.66 speed, 480 damage, and 8% bonus with 25 levels -Laser tower changed to 0.66 speed, 5280 damage factor, and faster projectile speed -Zealot tower changed to 1.5 speed, 6000 damage, 12% bonus and 20 levels -Fixed -random for extra short mode -Fixed Orbit tower range problem -Tidal tower changed to 1 speed, 4000 damage, 3 attacks to level

That is correct, it is the speed combined with the use of damage detection system. The specific towers in question, Quark/Laser/Tidal/Zealot all use the system compared to a tower like Flamethrower which doesn't. The damage system is optimized, but think of how ridiculous the performance strain is of having 20 towers attack at 0.31 speed and each one requiring code processing. Unfortunately the only solution is to reduce their speed. With 20 out, the specific towers mentioned above cause heavy stuttering of creeps. At 0.66 speed(Impulse), no such effect occurs. It goes beyond the stuttering of creeps though perhaps. The stutter is caused by performance lag, i.e. too much code processing going on. It isn't far fetched to think that perhaps these towers are the culprit of rare and random bugs, such as undead walking backwards etc.

Each strand of the helix does X(now 250) damage to any unit it encounters. A unit hit by both strands should take 2X damage. Now at the end, a unit may very well be hit by both strands and then be caught in the ending explosion, taking 3X damage.

Can you replicate this with mass laser towers(-gold,-lumber) instead of quark? I'm curious to see whether it is the high attack speed + damage detection, or the ability of quark that is the main culprit.

Thanks for pointing this out. Basically in B13 when a creep leaks it gets killed and hidden instead of being removed from the game. This allows for natural decay and may hopefully prevent the attack stop/creep un-removed bug. I simply forgot to add a check in the boss death trigger that would have prevented this problem.

Modifying the range will completely change the dynamic of this spell, and I'd like to avoid doing that. Now nerfing the attack speed sounds like a creative way of nerfing the damage without scaring people away. Thoughts?

Nice finding indeed, will be fixed.

Yes, this is basically correct. I forgot to change the point value of the tower. The trigger sets the size of the tower to its point value, so for all intents and purposes point value = scaling value. This is an easy fix and the reason why we have betas .

I'm happy to present to you guys the thirteenth beta. You will notice a new user interface look. The two SP balancing tools are now MP compatible, and I hope this allows them to be used for our balance efforts ahead. There have been a significant amount of tower balance changes. You will also noticed more streamlined AoE values, and more variety in range values. Finally, the creep hp have been reverted back to PB values. Get the beta here: http://www.eletd.com/beta You must use the following info: Username: tester Password: carleton First: In order to play the beta, you must type -carleton before the first round spawns. If you do not do so, the game will end. Make sure to put to good use the -level, -gold, and -lumber commands. Also use the -start xx, and -stop(if you need to) commands. Second: The following things are no cause for concern: Nothing, i.e. if it seems wrong report it! Third: Things to test: -Report any problems with Undead(walking backwards, revives at full hp etc.) if you encounter them -Report any problems with the new tools -How do the elemental bosses feel now? -How does the reverted creep hp feel? -Test Flesh Golems -Most importantly, put the new DPS Counter and Damage Display Functions to good use. Here are some great tools to get easy, useful, and accurate numbers on tower and build balance. Fourth: Here is the changelog: -Creep hp factor changed back to 1.17(PB) -User Interface skin changed to Night Elf from Human -Undead now revive at 33% health, as they should -DPS Counter and Damage Display Function are now multiplayer compatible -Elemental boss hp growth rate decreased again -Split the Tower Query into dual and triple abilities -Fixed the Trickery bug where you could clone/autocast clones -Flesh Golems tier 2 are now bug free -Ronald leak trigger optimized, ronalds always have correct max hp now -Changes to undead reincarnation trigger hopefully will prevent walking backwards -Changes to leak trigger along with other changes hopefully will prevent the unable to attack/does not get destroyed upon losing bug -Chain lightning lingering effect bug hopefully fixed -Changed all basic and single element towers to Divine armor(now all towers have divine armor and thus impossible to kill) -Flesh Golems now cannot upgrade while in Link Mode -Orbit orbs are now cosmetically larger, and move slightly slower -Quark now takes advantage of Fire Up, max level of 50 is increased by bonus percentage -Oblivion/Necromancy towers now more alike 3.0 version cosmetically -Tornado(Storm Tower) now flies and thus cannot body block(clump creeps) anymore, it can now move over ledges though -Flesh Golems now at 400 movespeed up from 300 -Frostbite(Polar Tower) CD reduced to 1 sec down from 2.5 sec -Orbit range now 500-1100 instead of 250-750, ability icon changed -Conjure Lightning(Electricity Tower) nerfed to 333 damage, down from 400. Range buffed to 1100 up from 900. Bonus 10% damage bug on primary target fixed, and now it can bounce back to a previously hit target -Corpse Explosion find range from 750 to 700, damage buffed to 750 from 500 -Gunpowder projectile speed increased, spread of fragments decreased, and damage nerfed to 125 -Voodoo tower down to 500 range from 900, AoE of Maledict increased to 300 from 250 -Quaker tower nerfed to 500 range down from 700, ability AoE now matches attack range -Kindle tower nerfed to 150 damage down from 200, ability AoE now matches attack range -Gold tower range buffed to 1100 from 700, damage nerfed to 4000 from 5000 -Skeleton Minions(Oblivion Tower) ranged nerfed to 500 from 900 -Life tower range buffed to 1100 from 700 -Quark tower range nerfed from 700 to 500 -Splash(Tidal Tower) AoE now matches tower attack range(700) -Flame tower nerfed from 300 to 250 damage -Ice tower nerfed to 250 damage from 300 -Nova tower nerfed to 750 damage from 1125, AoE now matches tower attack range(700) -Corrosion tower nerfed to 700 range down from 900, damage nerfed to 750 down from 1000 -Roots tower damage nerfed to 500 down from 750 -Windstorm tower damage nerfed to 500 down from 750, AoE now matches attack range(700) -Flamethrower tower range buffed to 900 from 700, AoE buffed to "large splash" -Muck tower AoE buffed to "large splash" -PTOTE changed to "small splash" -Hail tower nerfed to 560 damage down from 620 -Laser tower damage factor buffed to 2480 up from 2170 -All cannon towers changed to "small splash" -Water towers changed to "small splash" -Earth towers changed to "large splash", damage nerfed to 27 down from 41 -Fire towers changed to "large splash", damage nerfed to 11 down from 15 -Darkness towers changed to 1100 range, damage buffed to 141 up from 126 -Zealot tower changed to 1 attack speed, damage to 4000, ability to 6% and 40 levels -Quark tower changed to 0.31 attack speed, damage to 225, ability to 4% and 50 levels and 3 second reset, hopefully fixed reset failure bug -Beta Leader builder voice fixed -Updated Beta Leader Builder group -Quests menu now lists Well instead of Spring -Link Mode hotkey fixed (D) -Fixed the armor type of skeleton minions(Oblivion Tower) -Contract/Expand abilities now reflect minimum/maximum ranges, hotkeys added (C,E) -Cleaned up Link Mode tooltip for easier understanding **Small Splash** 100 Full Damage/200 Half Damage **Large Splash** 150 Full Damage/300 Half Damage

Actually your first thought was correct. Towers that use the damage detection system require processing unlike normal towers. Therefore an extremely high attack speed(Quark, maxed Zealot) combined with massing causes a lot of performance strain. This results in the stuttering amongst creeps. By making Quark 0.31 attack speed and Zealot 1.0, we are cutting the processing required in half in each case.

Thankfully the problem was made manageable by Cohadar back during the previous beta cycle. Before changing over to his system, ANY fast attacking tower caused this(I can elaborate more if anyone is interested). Now it is just those towers that specifically detect damage when they attack. If it is just Quark and Zealot then there is no cause for concern, as I can make the changes noted earlier. Also, I am surprised that I was out of the loop about Zealot. I knew this problem existed but thought I had eliminated it back in the previous beta cycle. Good thing Quark started bugging, as now I know and can fix both. Should note that there was no damage detection system in 3.0, were you thinking about Gem Tower?

I noticed(Vigi- had pointed it out, and I tested) that really fast attacking towers that utilize the damage detection system(i.e. towers whose attack causes some triggered event) cause the creeps to stutter badly if used in number. For instance, 10 Quarks(0.15 speed) causes some of the creeps to come to a halt for no reason. I found the same deal with 10 Zealots(at or near max), although not as bad. Laser(0.31 speed) for some reason only causes a very minor stutter with 10 of them out. I'm posting this to see if anyone else has experienced this. From my experience it looks like 0.31 speed and above is safe, so perhaps I shall make Quark 0.31 speed, and Zealot starting at 1(instead of 0.66). They would be buffed accordingly.

Should be fixed for B13.

Don't think I can make it homing, but I did increase the speed of the projectile significantly.

Spring Forward does not decrease the time it takes between summons. Rather, the creeps themselves get the X% bonus.

I hope to have a solution for this for B13....otherwise...