Getting kinda confused

[dvdlesher]

I tried to read the explanation on tower placement guide. But I don't really get it, because of the long guide and some misunderstanding..

So basically:

-What is the best tower to be used on long pass?

-What is the best tower to be used on 2 pass?

-Long pass or 2 pass?

Maybe my mistake will be revealed after reading your posts...

I always use 2 pass.. Is that wrong?

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

-What is the best tower to be used on long pass?

Periodic.

-What is the best tower to be used on 2 pass?

Periodic.

not sure if that was the answer you were looking for =p

-Long pass or 2 pass?

Now this one is actually a little more interesting. In most cases, 2-pass means that each tower will get to fire at the creep wave more times overall, thus it will be more efficient. So in terms of damage done per gold spent, 2-pass is better.

One very notable exception is single targets (i.e. elementals). For these a long pass is always better. So it is often the case that a main defense is set up at a 2-pass area like 3 or 6 but then when the elemental comes, temporary element arrow towers are set up at a long pass such as 7 or 5.

Another thing to keep in mind is that placement is a little trickier for 2-pass because the towers that fire first on the first pass will fire last on the second pass. So if you wanted to have a polar tower be the first tower to hit...well, you're gonna have to have two polar towers for that, one at each end of your defense.

And then of course there is multiplayer, where in general you need to play faster, so people would play at 4/5 instead of 3/6/9, otherwise they will be overrun by creeps.

One MORE thing, towers like nova and kindle work better at a long pass since they do AoE damage to everything around them. However if you already have a 2-pass set up, then nova would probably be better to support that 2-pass placement, rather than go off on its own longpass placement somewhere else. But for example, sometimes players like Cisz will solo an entire creep wave with one kindle tower placed at 5.

In summary, always using 2-pass is not a bad thing at all. But you should understand the merits of both, and understand why longpass is better suited to certain specific situations.

[Cisz]

Kirby is right, there is no such thing as "best tower", except the overpowered periodics.

Turn your question around, then it makes much more sense: Which tower needs which placement? There is a best way to play for each and every tower. Most towers will do best on 2-pass.

The most obvious exception are towers that can damage everything in their range at the same time, like nova, quaker, tidal and kindle. Those belong on long pass. Windstorm should be played long pass too, as a two pass placement usually makes the hurricane summon on the wrong side of the ledge.

Long range towers (range of 1100 and more) like dark, light, impulse or gunpowder, belong in the middle of the map, where they can reach basically everything. When placed correctly they can hit creeps left of 7, under 2, right of 6 and above 8.

De-buff towers that don't switch target automatically, like flame and ice, should be played short pass.

Does this help?

If not, ask again, and we will try to explain better.

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

yep! Cisz covered everything I missed.

Maybe soon we'll have some 1.22 replays out...wait, aren't you the one who was still using 1.21? In that case there's plenty of replays to watch and see what placements the pros use...

[dvdlesher]

Ahh... thanks to you 2, now my tower building is more clearer.. Thanks!!

I usually put all my tower (and I really mean ALL), such as nova, quaker, windstorm, and those that Cisz mentioned above.

But still, does this mean that I have to focus on one only or can i do both of them at same time?

I mean two pass and long pass.

Thanks to you two, again!!

And also for DDRKirby: Yes, I'm the one that still uses 1.21b for my replay. But I've updated it today. So there won't be no more 1.21b replays

[holepercent]

you can play with towers on both two pass and long pass together. The standard arrow opening features the 'permanent' towers at two pass IV and temporary towers at the long pass V.

most of your defense should be on two pass.. most of us play on IV and V, where IV is the two-pass and V the long pass. the towers that belong to long pass should be played at long-pass. the long range towers at V.

However, you may need to take into consideration debuff towers such as slows and armour reducing towers, whether the effects last.. the placement may have to be adjusted slightly. this isn't so much of a problem at IV and V as the distance is quite short.

[dvdlesher]

Hmm? Usually on beggining wave (around 1-15) I always sell and build between point 4 and 6.. (look at tower placement guide)

And then a "permanent" long pass, or "permanent" two-pass

[holepercent]

(i use roman numerals for the numpad notation...that's just me...)

that isn't really the way we do it. For the beginning, wave 1-15, a group of arrows is build at 4 with temporary towers at 5 which are sold and rebuilt on the interest. This can be memorised for VH. The number of towers needed is worked out exactly. i'll have to let jolin012 or cisz do a new replay for this.

Two-pass and long-pass can be combined in builds. What we usually do is most of the defense at two-pass 4 (usually closer to 5) and the long-pass towers at 5.

[dvdlesher]

I await your replays eagerly!

[holepercent]

i wouldn't be making a -vhsrcm replay so soon.. busy working on the forum draft series now..

[jolin012]

Which version (of tft) are you using lesher?

[dvdlesher]

I'm currently using 1.22...

[Cisz]

As for two pass or long pass..

That depends on if you kill them.

If you kill them you can put more dmg towers on long pass or a shorter two pass (like moving your zealots form 4 to the right). If you don't kill them, maybe it's because towers that belong on two pass are on long pass.

[dvdlesher]

It depends...? Well I gotta use my instinct then

[Twilice]

I don't think I can help much here

I use the force and use my instinkt, but that helps me alot 2

[Cisz]

That depends on if you kill them.

Do you kill them?

[dvdlesher]

That depends on if you kill them.

Do you kill them?

What do you mean exactly, Cisz? I don't get it..

[holepercent]

he's asking do you kill all the creeps or you have 30 leaks every wave. You know what it means by leaking?

if you kill all the creeps and don't leak anything, the placement can't be too far away from correct. if you leak every wave, then something needs to be done.

i have completed -vhsrcmsm games decently with entire defense at long-pass 5 .. so there is no hard and fast rule about long-pass against 2-pass placement.

in some games, we do 'misplace' towers but that's not really encouraged unless you're trying something non-standard out and know your builds well.. nevertheless, you should learn the correct placements for every tower.

[dvdlesher]

Ooh, I see... Thx 4 the clear explanation...

Well, I'l try to see it... If something goes wrong with my building, I'll post more on this topic