Splash Damage

[Karawasa]

We currently have three different splash ranges in the game. Would it be better to eliminate 1 or even 2 of them? Should there be more differences between them? Here is how they stack up:

250 - Water

-100 range for full damage

-175 range for half damage

-250 range for 1/10th damage

300 - Fire

-150 range for full damage

-225 range for half damage

-300 range for 1/10th damage

350 - Earth

-200 range for full damage

-275 range for half damage

-350 range for 1/10th damage

Thoughts?

[Kaini]

Arght i read this post only now. (Not before my big post in the GR)

Make all AoE (of the damagers) like the AoE of the Canons. Afaik is that very easy to calculate but if you publish for every tower the exact AoE values it should be calculateable too.

[Karawasa]

Arght i read this post only now. (Not before my big post in the GR)

Make all AoE (of the damagers) like the AoE of the Canons. Afaik is that very easy to calculate but if you publish for every tower the exact AoE values it should be calculateable too.

The cannons have 250 AoE, thus they are like Water Towers. All splash attacks in the game fall into one of these 3 categories.

We can change any aspect. There doesn't have to be the full/half/partial damage thing, nor 3 different splashes. I'll be interested to see what you guys think.

[holepercent]

Having the splash radius all the same would make it easy to work out build damage and calculate the number of towers needed..

while having multiple splash radius would make for variety and more considerations in build planning..

although i never really found the varying splash radius a major balance issue..

[Twilice]

Maybe this would only complicate things, but some towers should have more spread and some more focused.

Example:

Water should be a bit more focused - but also have a bigger AoE that deals minor damage.

Like water works - High power in the focused AoE, but it also a "splash" that has a pretty small damage amount in a bigger AoE. (like throwing water baloons)

In more number words:

Full splash damage a bit higher, medium could be just a bit higher, and small should be much larger but with much less damage.

(when I say much larger AoE I don't mean like it should have more AoE then earth)

Fire is harder, since it should have large AoE, but it feels like it has a huge powerfull AoE, it deals alot of damage to alot of creeps.

But somehow it should be a bit like decent splash with good damage and also a large AoE that deals minor damage like water.

If there is a fire you can feel the heat even if you don't stand so close to it.

(But if you are in the fire you will suffer from burning damage )

Number:

These numbers should be in a balanced fashion (hope you understood here what I meant)

Earth seems seems to be the strongest, I don't got any good ideas for it.

Maybe change the full / half / "tenth" damage fashion on this one.

[Kaini]

Interresting idea 13est but not easy to calculate. (Maybe we are able to implement later)

First: We must not forget the range problem!

My idea for AoE towers with a missile:

Fist a small draft. X is the main target. # are the two emenies around.

#-----135-----X-----135-----#

(300AoE/s * 0,45s = 135AoE)

Every tower gets 200AoE.

Damage area 1: 0 to 70 with 100% damage (Is that enought to hurt the main target 100%?)

Damage area 2: 70 to 200 with 50% damage

Damage area 3: delete it

All AoE towers will do double damage. So they get half strengh. I think the AoE of area 1 should be very small - if it is too big slowing gets overpowerd.

With that formular it is easy to calculate the dps (and the dpspg).

Formular for dps: damage*2 / speed

[Karawasa]

I'd like to propose something myself. We would have two different splashes. They would be:

Small:

-100 Full

-200 Half

Large:

-150 Full

-300 Half

The difference is actually quite large between these two. With 100 damage, and 135 space between creeps (non-fast level) we have(each value being damage to a specific creep):

50 100 50 - Small

50 100 100 100 50 - Large

So small splash would basically double damage, and large splash would quadruple it.

What do you guys think?

[Kaini]

Lol looks like a copy of the chat

We already talked about that... absolutely for it

[jolin012]

hm, sounds like something, how would that work on fast waves and/or extreme mode? would large be as sucky as small or just be lucky enough to get several in it's range in a good way?

[Karawasa]

hm, sounds like something, how would that work on fast waves and/or extreme mode? would large be as sucky as small or just be lucky enough to get several in it's range in a good way?

Fast creeps are about 168 distance apart instead of the normal 135. This means that for small splash there is really no difference. Large splash however takes a hit because the creeps are too spread out for its full damage range. The above is assuming no slow/clumping.

[holepercent]

the proposed splash plan makes it easy to calculate damage..

splash has always been weaker against fast levels. so having the large splash less effective makes for more strategic planning against fast levels or playing in extreme mode. but it's good that at least small splash is unaffected..

Now what about the effect of voodoo and corrosion's spells? creeps 250 aoe around the target are affected. How would this change?

Consider also the cast range of the aoe slows. What would be the range and therefore how many creeps will be slowed in each spell cast.. Nova and windstorm currently affect creeps around 750 aoe, roots 375, muck 500

[Cisz]

Small:

-100 Full

-200 Half

Large:

-150 Full

-300 Half

That sounds like a huge boost for situations with slow. I'm not sure about the post-pb slowing, as it is much weaker now, but still your splash design sounds like a big boost. As I see it: The more a splash works like an st tower (for example: 80 range with full damage, 150 for 1/4th, 250 for 1/10th damage), the less it will change it's output when slow comes into play. And a tower that looks like "350 splash range with full damage" will have to be very weak w/o slow to prevent abuse with slow.

I forsee the following: If we increase the splashed part of the damage, the towers will either become useless w/o slow (like beeing 1/5th of a natures dmg, and unable to solo early game) or overpowered with slow.

I guess it needs more testing. We are not even sure how the current splash behaves with slow.

[Karawasa]

That sounds like a huge boost for situations with slow. I'm not sure about the post-pb slowing, as it is much weaker now, but still your splash design sounds like a big boost. As I see it: The more a splash works like an st tower (for example: 80 range with full damage, 150 for 1/4th, 250 for 1/10th damage), the less it will change it's output when slow comes into play. And a tower that looks like "350 splash range with full damage" will have to be very weak w/o slow to prevent abuse with slow.

I forsee the following: If we increase the splashed part of the damage, the towers will either become useless w/o slow (like beeing 1/5th of a natures dmg, and unable to solo early game) or overpowered with slow.

I guess it needs more testing. We are not even sure how the current splash behaves with slow.

This only happens once in a blue moon, but Cisz I disagree with you. Here are the PB values for Water and Earth:

250 - Water

-100 range for full damage

-175 range for half damage

-250 range for 1/10th damage

350 - Earth

-200 range for full damage

-275 range for half damage

-350 range for 1/10th damage

You will notice small splash is just about on par with the PB Water. Large splash is actually a nerfed version of the PB Earth. What we basically have done is streamlined the full/half damage parts taking into consideration creep spacing, and eliminated the 10% part.

The small and large splash values are balanced without considering slows. If our calculations are right(and some simple testing will confirm), then splash damage should be on par with ST damage(like with cannon/arrow). You point out that splash gets stronger with slow, but I counter with the fact that splash sucks vs bosses and also when creeps are missing(i.e. if there are only 2 creeps instead of 3 for small splash...).

[Cisz]

I wouldn't call a tower that does 500% of an st tower with slow ballanced.

[Kaini]

I wouldn't call a tower that does 500% of an st tower with slow ballanced.

Maybe we have to power down slowing.

[jolin012]

slow and splash will always be the key to victory:P except for element td fire edition - with balance!

[Kaini]

slow and splash will always be the key to victory:P except for element td fire edition - with balance!

There is no slowing in element td fire edition - with balace

But maybe we'll find a way to prevent clumping.

[jolin012]

slowing overall takes teh creeps closer to each other^^ and then some towers can make it even better by only slowing the creeps up front, for the ones in the back to catch up. combine that with a corner for the creeps to pass, adn you'll have them all in one big bunch

[Twilice]

This might be a strange qustions, but what is element td fire edition?

[holepercent]

This might be a strange qustions, but what is element td fire edition?

element td with only one element, therefore only one tower and the game is perfectly balanced.. there is only one tower and the creeps.

[jolin012]

it is more of a virtual td, it's not yet created but, it is "with balance "