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That is true modesty...

The same applies for amplified duals on tier 2 and tier 3, here is how far you can get with each tower on his best location. Tower Level 2 on best placement Level 3 on best placement Comments Electricity wave 29, 30 13L wave 40, 41 5L You can get mad amounts of cash soloing electricity. Too long range. Ice wave 8, placmnt 6 wave 8, placmnt 6 Slow test needed, tower cant solo. Trickery wave 8, placmnt 6 wave 8, placmnt 6 Weak tower for soloing, should be ok. Quantum wave 19 (wave 26 with tlp) wave 31 (wave 37 with tlp) Nice tower but please a bit more teleport spell range! Life wave 8, placmnt 6 wave 8, placmnt 6 Undead units give lives? Gunpowder wave 27, placmnt 5 wave 39,placmnt 5 Long range, good damage, excellent speed. Still any wishes? Death wave 8, placmnt 6 wave 8, placmnt 6 Weak for soloing. Skill still needs to be tested on build. Magic --- Poison wave 29, 30 6L wave 40, 41 2L Poison is some kind of imba, it needs more cooldown, on manual use I made it to wave 43 soloing tier 3!. Rage wave 8, placmnt 9 wave 8, placmnt 9 This tower definately needs autocast, well posted it shortens the wave down to 5 creeps. Pretty OK imo. Blacksmith wave 8, placmnt 6 wave 8, placmnt 6 Weak for soloing. Skill still needs to be tested on build. Hydro wave 8, placmnt 6 wave 8, placmnt 6 A bit luck dependent, but a real funny tower. Earth damage? Do you see earth anywhere :-) Flame wave 8, placmnt 6 wave 8, placmnt 6 One of the slowest duals. Needs to be checked in build. Well wave 8, placmnt 6 wave 8, placmnt 6 This is the slowest one, barely even able to hit all creeps on best location. Skill test needed. Kindle --- placemnt ---> Numpad area where the tower shows its best damade output. (placement for poison tower was position 4, Electricity was on 9, but both will also work pretty well on other locations).

In order to find out how to use the new towers in a build, I tested every dual tower in key possitions (Numpad 5, 9, 4) in order to find out how far you can go with each without leaking in VH. Having 1 single tower as long as possible, you to pharm interest and have enough money to finish the last 10 waves of the game, it also helps to planify the builds. Tower Soloing on 5 Soloing on 9 Soloing on 4 Electricity wave 17, 18 2L wave 19, 20 7L wave 18, 19 4L Ice Not possible wave 5, 6 2L Not possible Trickery Not possible wave 5, 6 7L Not possible Quantum wave 4, 6 2L(no tlp) wave 4, 5 2L(no tlp) wave 10, 11 23L(no tlp) Life Not possible Not possible Not possible Gunpowder wave 15, 16 4L wave 15, 16 6L wave 13, 14 6L Death wave 8, 9 14L Not possible wave 8, 9 9L Magic --- Poison wave 15, 16 17L wave 17, 18 15L wave 17, 18 9L Rage wave 8, 9 15L(mnl) wave 8, 9 6L(mnl) wave 8, 9 17L(mnl) Blacksmith Not possible Not possible Not possible Hydro Not possible wave 8, 9 6L wave 8, 9 5L Flame Not possible Not possible Not possible Well Not possible Not possible Not possible Kindle --- Wave 8, 9 6L --> means that I first leaked on lvl 9 and that I leaked 6 creeps. Not possible --> the tower is not able to hit and kill all creeps, so it is probably a support tower with little damage output. No tlp --> I didn't make use of the teleport skill of the tower Mnl --> I controlled manually skill and target of the tower

Well, till now you could build storm with good microing short before wave 20, and solo the tower till wave 31, which means on multiplayer to kick most of your opponents, it was too strong for the prize you payed for it. Ronald will be redesigned, but we should concentrate for now on the test of the towers, once we finish all major bugs with the towers, the moment has comed to take care of the rest. Step by step. Most ppl playing on pick was always going on bnet on gold towers and pures at the end. They didn't even care to try another build, so it was imo necesary to change something, if I would get a buck for each time somebody asked me for the elements of gold tower, I would be rich by now.

The list has been made on VH and all normal. So basically the towers suitable to farm interest and have a good damage output are Electricity (F+L), Quantum (L+E), Gunpowder (D+E) and Poison (D+N). I think that poison tower needs to be nerfed a bit, maybe increasing the corruption skill cooldown by 0.1 secs or slowing the speed of the spell. More in general: Is it correct that undead units give now lives via Life tower? I think that the fast waves aren't much faster than the normal ones. The undead waves are still too hard, healing waves are a joke against them. Is it possible to have each undead only revive in about a 50% of the cases? I also got the impression that some of the undead units revive again when they are leaked and make their second course through the maze.

I've just made a balancing test of all dual towers soloing on different locations, here's a list about how far you can go with each without leaking (or nearby). Tower Soloing on 5 Soloing on 9 Soloing on 4 Level 2 on best placement Level 3 on best placement Comments Electricity wave 17, 18 2L wave 19, 20 7L wave 18, 19 4L wave 29, 30 13L wave 40, 41 5L You can get mad amounts of cash soloing electricity. Too long range. Ice Not possible wave 5, 6 2L Not possible wave 8, placmnt 6 wave 8, placmnt 6 Slow test needed, tower cant solo. Trickery Not possible wave 5, 6 7L Not possible wave 8, placmnt 6 wave 8, placmnt 6 Weak tower for soloing, should be ok. Quantum wave 4, 6 2L(no tlp)wave 4, 5 2L(no tlp)wave 10, 11 23L(no tlp)wave 19 (wave 26 with tlp)wave 31 (wave 37 with tlp) Nice tower but please a bit more teleport spell range! Life Not possible Not possible Not possible wave 8, placmnt 6 wave 8, placmnt 6 Undead units give lives? Gunpowder wave 15, 16 4L wave 15, 16 6L wave 13, 14 6L wave 27, placmnt 5 wave 39,placmnt 5 Long range, good damage, excellent speed. Still any wishes? Death wave 8, 9 14L Not possible wave 8, 9 9L wave 8, placmnt 6 wave 8, placmnt 6 Weak for soloing. Skill still needs to be tested on build. Magic --- Poison wave 15, 16 17L wave 17, 18 15L wave 17, 18 9L wave 29, 30 6L wave 40, 41 2L Poison is some kind of imba, it needs more cooldown, on manual use I made it to wave 43 soloing tier 3!. Rage wave 8, 9 15L(mnl)wave 8, 9 6L(mnl) wave 8, 9 17L(mnl) wave 8, placmnt 9 wave 8, placmnt 9 This tower definately needs autocast, well posted it shortens the wave down to 5 creeps. Pretty OK imo. Blacksmith Not possible Not possible Not possible wave 8, placmnt 6 wave 8, placmnt 6 Weak for soloing. Skill still needs to be tested on build. Hydro Not possible wave 8, 9 6L wave 8, 9 5L wave 8, placmnt 6 wave 8, placmnt 6 A bit luck dependent, but a real funny tower. Earth damage? Do you see earth anywhere :-) Flame Not possible Not possible Not possible wave 8, placmnt 6 wave 8, placmnt 6 One of the slowest duals. Needs to be checked in build. Well Not possible Not possible Not possible wave 8, placmnt 6 wave 8, placmnt 6 This is the slowest one, barely even able to hit all creeps on best location. Skill test needed. Kindle ---

Agreed, it will need some money rebalancing, it can't be helped. My idea was going more to -15% shared/distribuited bounty. (So, if in a 2 players group one of the players kills a +1 bounty creep, both players get +0,425 bounty. 0,425 x 2 = 0,85 total bounty output) The total creeps spawned would be the same in normal and coop game, with the only difference that one player after another gets the full load, so that the total earneable money from bountys considering all players together just drops this 15%. You get less money to spend, so you will have it hard to kill all the mobs on your own. The idea of a second lane is not good imo, ETD is somehow special because of its map design, any change on the basic map distribution will destroy a part of all the hidden tower location tactics that the map has. It maybe was casual that the map has so different damageoutput depending on the location of the towers, but I really appreciate that building a tower is not always directly a guarantee for kills, there is an important knowhow behind which location is suitable for each tower. So, avoid map redesign if possible. Actually that's the reason why I purposed a randomized area coop. Even if you slow, you will not always be the first one who gets the creeps, this limits you on the potential to slow down the game and farm interest. As well, you have a bit less money on this mode which delays some rounds to get the powerful triples like storm. Why dont you play then Mass AoE-slow in multiplayer race mode ? Simple, the first one finishing the wave sets the counter, you end up with a full lane of different creep types. Same applies here, if your partner finishes his part of wave 45 and you get the w45 creeps, the counter is already set and you will maybe get w46 following the w45 creeps, er even worse, you get again the w46 left from a third player and the w47 counter is already ticktacking. You will only slow the entire game if you are the first player receiving a wave, and even in this case you are just giving your teammates a chance to get some cash and some time to build or even micro & farm. So, imo, you have less advantages from slow then in a normal solo game. About the dominance, I think it is important that a average player is able to show how good he is. So, up to a certain point, it is good if a player can dominate the game a bit, at least its random, so no player will be waiting ages to get something to kill. On a 3 players team, mathematically each 3rd wave will start in your area.

I don't think it so. Everybody here has got his own life, and I know it's not easy to live it but most of us do this for fun, entertainment, passion or selfdetermination. If you enjoy what you do, it brings you somewhere, even if it's just a personal goal. The point is, taking a big projekt with tons of working hours is hard to take in cooperation with all participating parts. We are all of us participating more or less in this projekt, younger, older, experienced players, inexperienced ones, programmers,... we got all opinions and ideas about how and when which things have to be done, this is the point where tons of work clash with our expectations, and it's important to be flexible. If not, your expectations will grow more important than the goal itself which you wanted to reach, it just stops making fun. Most of us will receive no medal for the time we spend here, we know that when the credits section of the game comes up, our nick will not be there, we will cross nobody on the steet saying oh yes you are the etd mapmaker, and sometimes not all our efferts will be apreciated by others, we just do it for joy and our "own-life" hasn't much to do with it. If you start a personal projekt for yourself you should think about your expectations first, this is a community and we work all together, if possible 'till the end, if not, it's ok, everybody will understand it, we all have other important things in our lives. Elseway it ends up with bad words. I'm glad you finally found in the forum a way to communicate, which i think is one of those things that seem to have failed, and it will remember all of us how much hard work is needed to make a good map. Keep up the good work, follow your goals, it makes you grow up.

After reading the last answers I think we are talking about different things. I'll try to explain what I mean better. I'm talking about a team game-mode. You have shared life with all other players, so, if your teammates are unable to kill the mobs you leaked, the whole team loses lives. It's a shared victory or defeat. You start the game normally, setting 1 difficulty level for all teammates. The game starts normally for you, with the exception that you will get an increased amount of spawns depending on how many teammates youhave (double with 1 extra teammate, triple with 2 extra teammates, and so on). The bounty of kills will be shared with all other teammates. As soon as you finish leaking (or not) the first round, the counter for the next round will start. The creeps you leaked will appear then in your next teammates area, giving him a chance to finish your job. In the meantime, you are already busy with wave 2. The creeps will be leaked from player to player untill the last player leaks them, if all players missed the chance to kill the wave, then the whole team starts losing lives and the passed creeps reappear in the area of the first player. The element avatars are summoned normally with the exception that if you leak your element, the lives you lose are teamlives, so, be ready to listen something from your teammate if you do. It should also work for hero mode normally. Whats interesting on this idea is that you have to keep an eye on the gameplay of your teammates, if one is concentrating too much on certain damage types, you should try as teammate to cover this deficiences. On games with many players, it can also happen that one player does not builds at all to keep saving interest for the lategame creeps. The second option I meant, is more problematic but has many adventages. Bounty is still shared to not overpower anyone. Each round, the map choses randomly who will be the first, second, third,... player to kill the mobs for the starting wave. As soon as the creeps for the randomly chosen first passed his/her area, the next round counter starts. The problem: If you are unlucky you get 3 waves of creeps at the same time , but hey, it's fun. What's good on this mode is that you will probably loose control over which player you are (first or maybe last getting the wave), so you will be hell busy trying to kill as much as possible. Competitive Teamwork? The counter on the leaderboard shows the kills each player has made and as each player still has his own interest growing, you will of course try to compete with your teammates to see who gets the best build, and as the order is randomized, you can't complaint that you are leaving all creeps half dead when they pass your area. This option still gives pro's a chance to show what they are able to do and let you know whosthedaddy . What is important on the idea is that it only needs programming and does not requires any map or gameplay redesign, it can be done with all the things we already have.

Teoretically it would be possible to create a gamemode were lets say 4 players cooperate, each wave, area 1 gets 4 times the usual creeps (i.ex. 4x30 spawns), and leaking creeps are just sended to next area/player 2, and so on. It wouldnt change 2 much of the actual map and could be implemented easily. The only big problem i see is that the game would get enormous long and the interest system would be ruined or would need serious rebalance. Any constructive solutions for this? Of course that bounty would be shared, or, alternatively, each wave another random player is the first starting (at least if you are the last player on the row, you may get nearby no creeps if the others play well or a huge lynch mob if the others are leaking). Lives are lost when the last player is unable to send all remaining spawns to hell, and so, there are only team lives, no single lives, in our 4 players case, 4x50 = 200 lives. Just my thaughts about how to do it without changing the actual map...

I don't know if this is the right place to post it, but i think it's important to mention. What I specially disliked from the old hero system is that it had little option to choose how to upgrade the hero. Each lvl 22 Fire lord was nearby exact the same with same skills. What I think is that there should be more skills to choose, so that the heroes become more strategical. I.ex. 1 Autoupgrade skill (maybe a combo of special critical strike and a aura that enhances towers of the same element), 1 Aura skill (affecting all towers in range), 1 closer position spell (like the damage in a line or stomp spells), 1 Mass AoE spell, 1 Single target spell and 1 Autocast. So that each player can choose which way he wants to develop his hero and adapt it to his needs (some people may want to use it to finish off leaking single targets, others may prefer to do some splash before the mobs get to the death passage and others may prefer to leave the hero passive in the middle of his towers and reinforce the build with auras). Having all heroes the same basic skill distribution is also very helpful for balancing, you just need to make sure that all Mass AoE spells i.ex. are equally strong instead of balancing the heroes as a whole. Instead of the old summoning skill you could give all heroes an Ultimate so that the hero transforms himself into the level 3 tier instead of just summoning it.

Ya, I know, but can u stop trying it Actually I reached about 1300 fried rony's soloing, mass slow +mass lagg +mass boring, then they just started appearing on the exit. Seems that I still require some enlightnment or need to reach some weird plane of existence to achieve Cisz 3 day bigmac killing marathon Anyways, thanx for the replay and I hope we met sometime in BNet for a gg.

Hi, my name is Martin and I live actually in Madrid (Spain), i'm pretty versatile, on the one side i'm a fourth year business psychology student, on the other I've just opened this summer my own business with 2 friends, so, dont wonder if I have some lagunes in which I'm not visiting the forum, I've been pretty stressed this year. I'm 26 years old and natural of Hamburg, germany. My favorite hobbies are Sports, Reading newspapers, Chess, Watching Animes (Naruto, Bleach, Death note, Claymore are the ones I watch now), foreign languages, PC games (Anyone wondering ), and more in general Surfing on the Net and Books. I play W3 for about 16 months and discovered EleTD for about 9 months ago. I play mostly solo but sometimes you can find me on Northrend portal. EleTD is actually the only TD I play, other maps I play are the HeroLineWars saga, Terminus Arena, XAos, sometimes Angel Arena, and, how not, DotA (I'm an absolutely DotA-noob, I admit) and some others. About my EleTD playing skills, I mostly play VH+Random, generally I beat the first 60 lvls with something between 3 and 40 lives depending on elements. I do not beat BigMac Ronald , but I will or die tryin'. Kind regards to all the forum staff, all ETD-fans and all newcommers. The real test is just about to start. ElementTD 4.0, harder then ever, can't wait 4 release

Actually we have dual towers slowing, stopping, poisoning, ect. mobs, what I miss is a dual tower with a modest armor reduction, I just dont see how this could fit in a magic tower. Fire+Darkness, maybe blood corruption or a decay skill? Maybe a blinding skill? About random effects, I prefer to play a low effect + high probability skill then a mega ultra super effect with nearby no chances, it ends up like dinosaur tower did, sometimes you overdamage the mobs, sometimes you leak if you depend on that tower. So, anything over 30% chances per attack (with normal attack speed), can be considered imo as a "no luck depending" tower.

What about a dual summoning tower? If the tower has i.ex. 43 mana remaining when it starts attacking, it consumes all mana and releases an annihilation sphere that attacks with red lightning multishot and follows the enemies for 4.3 seconds (a tenth of invested mana). The tower starts at 0 mana to avoid overmicroing. Something like "send the mana out to catch the mobs", sounds nice. What do u guys think?

You mean like actually the sun tower is doing? Hit creeps in a line? If it is so, it sounds too complex for a single element tower of course. I prefer well balanced long range towers and splash. Slow, bouncing, line attacks, armor reductors, ... just fits better on dual elements, like MagicalHacker said.

If the max hp is so important for you guys, why dont you include the maxhp for the current level in the multiboard? I mean, you can aproximately know the life% from each creep pressing Alt, and knowing life % and max hp gives you a good idea about the real life of your mobs. About the level end time delay, there is imo no other way to find good values then testing, testing and testing.

Actually I like the acolyte running instead of dialog boxes following reasons: 1. It gives you interesting information about other players, i.ex. how many people plays VH and VE. 2. It is less boring then choosing from boxes 3. People decides faster (no one likes it to be the last one choosing), and no waiting. 4. Player interaction in general If you still think that boxes are better, my proposal would be that if you use boxes, each chosen option will create a wisp in an area with the player color. I.ex. Player 2 (blue) chooses Normal dificulty, Race and Chaos mode. At voting end of each player, the cam is locked and centered to an area where the player sees a circlet for each difficulty, and a wisp with the difficulty choosen by each player (in real time), iex VE: red, orange E: grey N: blue, green H: yellow VH: brown. A special area could be for other options, like a circlet showing all people who wanted Race and hero mode, as well as chaos and random mode. In our case, a blue wisp would appear at the chaos and the race circlet. This way the game would appear more professional and you would still have the interesting information about other players. After 2-5 seconds seeing the distribution, the game should start, that's it. Do you guys like the idea?

I totally agree to all above said. Players don't play extreme because it is not funny to sweat like hot dog in the microwave untill you finally die painfully in round 39 against a lynch-mob of worms (if you make it that far...). I think that raising the difficulty will make players to choose the hardest acceptable difficulty. If you feel that you have no chance to survive, you just dont play that difficulty. So, difficulties need to be progresive, with medium to small difference between diflvl and diflvl. VE spamming is unavoidable, and it is funny, harder difficulties just need more time to start dominating. BUT, If all difficulties get same creeps, and, so, same bounty, IT WILL BE HELL. Actually I dislike the idea to have all dificulties with the same amount of creeps.

To be honest, when I play multigame I often see the same players choosing VE and hero mode. My impression is that the hero mode seems to be quite popular for newcommers. Don't ask my why but some people seems to feel to have a "bonus" if they see an accesible and controllable hero on their side. It also is funny, by the way. I don't play hero mode for ages, but I admit that when I first started playing EleTD I started with hero mode. I growed up with it. EleTD is not one of those games that needs huuuge loadingtime, so, imo the adventages and disadventages of having or not a hero-mode option are pretty equal, I feel that axing hero mode will make the game lose a bit of its "magic". But I really don't care much. It just isn't something I use to play now.

This is just my personal opinion, but i think that auras are just for little boys that dont know where to post the towers. Actually I like the lack of auras and to have some abilities to be autocasted by other towers. It encourages smart planning of topwer posting. The auras of the heroes were ok as you just get 1 aura in the whole game and it had limited range. I hate the typical aura tower which you can upgrade to -Armor aura, -creep speed aura, +attack speed aura, or +damage aura (I think it was on GemTD?). "I just cant live with It but can't win without it." If you imbalance, all players need aura tower to survive or it ends up as a decorative useless tower. Imho, drop auras if possible, but some people may feel different.

Sounds like a good idea. About the easyness-problem (player just autocasts the tower and has nothing else to do), I think that if you plan a mana limit for autocasters, you can harm a bit those players, givin them a good reason to plan better the activation of the tower (no one likes it to face a healing wave an have most of his towers out of mana).

What if the tower needs to regenerate for about 1,5 rounds? It would be pretty nice to build a tower that deals good damage for a i.ex. healing wave, and be able to turn the tower off for those waves I know for certain I will not leak, just to have the tower ready for when hard times come. No microing abuse, useful tower. But somehow I feel it hurts a bit the gameplay concept.

We already have classes that harm splash effectivity, so, one classification helping splash wouldnt be thaaaat bad Agreed. It doesn´t makes much sense to me to have an absolutely uncontrollable factor in the game, if you lose control about how many lives you lose as it depends on luck, it is in my eyes no improvement. I think this one makes lot of sense, if you build your entire strenth in one only place, the mobs will disable your towers and pass, splash and fast attack effectivity is harmed, and high damage´s and slow´s effectivity is enhanced; good for massers, bad for splashers. Good idea, possibly hard to balance. Maybe adjust it: each received attack has 3% chances to disable the casting tower, does not work for damage auras and mass damage spells. I like this one also, but it may overcomplicate things, creeps with resistent skin make more sense (-X% spell damage receives and -X% spell effect durance)

I really like the reviving idea for undead, a vampiric aura would be hard to balance but also pretty neat. I also like the tanking concept for mechanicals, at least, they appear as more resistent then normal waves. What I miss are more skills interacting with the classes, things like a waterdamage based tower that makes mechanicals rost reducing ther armor, or a light based attack that slows undead mobs. Back on topic: I would set resurrect to about a 20% maxlife (remember how ennoying it it having your high damage towers wasting 1.5 secs on retargeting and killing the creep, even a 1% of original life would be enough), the higher the % is, the more it harms splash towers, so 20% may be enough, needs to be tested o.c.. About the mechanicals tank skill, I would vote for armor increase instead of damage reduction, it encourages to build armor reducers.