Tower Range

[Karawasa]

We currently have four different tower ranges in the game among the elemental towers. They are of course 500/700/900/1500. I'd like to examine this aspect of the game. To help with this, here is a handy picture:

Thoughts?

[jolin012]

We currently have four different tower ranges in the game among the elemental towers. They are of course 500/700/900/1500

Which tower is 500? I thought laser had it's range increased to 700. perhaps the towers i didn't yet examine, like new desease is that 500 one?.

Thoughts?

umm, in which way? as for changing them or as for how much it's worth to have the longer range?

Edit: Right, I forgot Fire tower.

[Karawasa]

There are only a few 500 range towers, which leads me to ask...

Should we just get rid of 500 range? We could have 700 be considered short, 900(or modified) medium, and 1500(or modified) long.

[holepercent]

600 for arrows and cannons definately must stay.

1500 for long-range provided gunpowder and impulse, (light and dark towers) with (almost) map-wide coverage and roles as leak catchers which had its place in certain builds, usually in random.

At two-pass placements, few if any really calculate/consider the tower range. Hence, the middle ranges are not really necessary. This comes into play only when placing a tower on long range and whether it can actually cover the entire bend at VII and V placements.

Short pass placements (the old ice and flame) has special strategic considerations.

Hence 3 tower range in play: short pass (700), full long pass (900), long range (1500)

[Karawasa]

Hence 3 tower range in play: short pass (700), full long pass (900), long range (1500)

Do you guys feel there is enough difference between 700 and 900 range? In certain placements it can make a difference, but in others the range is negligible. I'd like to see these two feel more different like how 1500 contrasts with the other two so strongly.

[holepercent]

also in consideration

what about the ability of nova, quaker, kindle?

[Karawasa]

also in consideration

what about the ability of nova, quaker, kindle?

I think it would be more natural if they matched their attack range. Thus a change from 750 to 700.

[Cisz]

Afaik 500 is the lowest range that can 2-pass when placed at one side of a straight ledge, and it's also too short to cover an entire turn at 5 or 7, so it's a different kind of range that makes a great change in placement, and I think it's a good thing to have such towers.

About 900 vs 700 - I can place much more 900 towers to cover the entire turn at 7, 5, 3, and 9, so the more towers the game allows, the more 900 becomes important. In a nearly towerless game 900 is more of a nice boost for me than a big difference.

[Karawasa]

500/900/1500?

That is an interesting perspective on 500 range. If we keep it though, we should make it more prevalent among the towers.

Perhaps then 700 is the range to axe.

[Cisz]

I feel more like 500/700/900/1100/1500. 700 and 1100 are limited versions of 900 and 1500. They can do the same, but only from far less places. But if you feel like less different ranges, 500/900/1500 sounds cool.

[jolin012]

or perhaps 500/700/1500? or try something new, weirdo 800 in the middle

But why do we need few ranges, i liked 500/700/900/1500

I'd like to see even more ranges rather than fewer, somewhere between 100 and 1100 would be cool.

Edit: I see cisz posted abuot the same while i was typing

[Cisz]

About 700 (red) and 900 (blue), look at this:

I can place much more towers on two pass at 3 while maintaining the coverage of the lover part of the path when using 900 rangers.

900 vs 700.PNG

[Karawasa]

These are all the ATTACK range values for the towers in the game. Hope this helps in distributing ranges for more varied gameplay.

Single:

-Light = 1500

-Darkness = 1500

-Water = 700

-Fire = 500

-Nature = 900

-Earth = 700

-PTOTE = 900

Dual:

-Gunpowder = 1500

-Magic = 900

-Trickery = 700

-Disease = 700

-Poison = 900

-Blacksmith = 700

-Quark = 500

-Mushroom = 900

-Hydro = 700

-Electricity = 900

-Flame = 700

-Kindle = 700

-Life = 700

-Ice = 900

-Well = 700

Triple:

-Flamethrower = 700

-Laser = 700

-Roots = 700

-Muck = 700

-Jinx = 700

-Voodoo = 900

-Corrosion = 900

-Oblivion = 900(minion)

-Hail = 900

-Drowning = 700

-Gold = 700

-Quaker = 700

-Zealot = 700

-Enchantment = 900

-Polar = 900

-Flesh = 700

-Nova = 700

-Storm = 700

-Impulse = 1500

-Tidal = 700

[Cisz]

And here is the difference between 1100 (blue) and 1500 (red):

1100 can reach the center and two of the three outer lanes, but only just so. I can't place more than 2 towers that way, and there is some space where the towers hit one outer lane.

1500 on the other hand allows 6 towers to reach all 3 outer lanes.

1100 vs 1500.PNG

[Cisz]

After a long discussion in the irc, we (Karawasa, jolin012 and Cisz) present some suggested range changes for a nice variable set of 500, 700, 900, 1100, and 1500:

-Darkness (1500) down to 1100

-Electricity (900) up to 1100

-Voodoo (900) down to 500

-Corrosion (900) down to 700

-Oblivion (900 minion) down to 500

-Life (700) up to 1100

-Gold (700) up to 1100

-Quaker (700) down to 500

-Flamethrower (700) up to 900

-Jinx (700) up to 1100

What do you guys think?

[Guest Vigi-]

What was the thought process behind increasing range on jinx? I think its fine as is. If the range is increased will the orbs that fly around in the circle at max range travel slower because of d/t? I think if the range gets too high it would be pointless unless it the orbits too the same amount of time to complete a full orbit at max range then at min range. If it took too long to orbit there would basically be no point at putting it at 1100, even if it was just to micro for one creep.

Maybe I'm just not too familiar with how the new tower works. I guess we'll have to wait and see with the next beta.

[Cisz]

The time for one circle stays the same, no matter what the range. At a range of 1100 it actually makes sense to change the range during a wave, to hit the creeps several times, so the tower get's some micro attention.

[Guest Vigi-]

The time for one circle stays the same, no matter what the range. At a range of 1100 it actually makes sense to change the range during a wave, to hit the creeps several times, so the tower get's some micro attention.

Yea, so in essence what your saying is compared to min range, when changing to max range the orbit actually speeds up to complete an orbit at the same rate as one that travels at minimum range.

Just making sure.

Corrosion? Can we elaborate why? I kinda liked it as is. I really don't feel that the tower itself is significantly stronger than any others and lowering the range will only make it subpar to other choices you could be building.

Maybe adding a slightly larger aoe? This could help players that like to micro the aoe dmg by having it attack a creep once and microing it to another to reach its full potential. I know as is it affects about 1 unit on either side of the unit you are attacking (without clumping or slow).

Again might have to wait for the beta to see how this range really affects gameplay.

[Cisz]

Yes, you get it. (The angle speed is constant, but the track speed goes up.)

[holepercent]

Having 3 ranges will streamline the game and make it easier across the board. but most towers would therfore be absolutely two-pass/long-pass..

5 ranges will provide more strategic considerations for more experinced players although most casual players wouldn't really pay attention to tower range. The difference between 700 and 900 isn't much but it can make some placements more complex/tricky, leading to decisions on how/where to place each tower to maximise every tower in the build. Probably there'll be more towers competing for space on the long pass VII and/or V.

700 is somewhat a 'odd'/limited long pass. 1100 is a semi-map wide coverage. One square can make quite some difference.

it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.. may require quite a lot of games to actually 'feel' the impact of the ranges..

[Twilice]

Pretty much thinking the same thing, but lowering flamethrowing.

But now when it has better range will the ability be increased and attack degreased to make this a micro tower?