PermanentNoob

Who needs to finish waves fast while playing single player? Less time equals less interest. Less interest equals less total gold in the end. Now explain to me why you think less gold is superior to more gold. Only reason to finish waves fast is to try to force leaks on your competitors in multiplayer. Ofcourse, you need a point of view to say all replays suck. You see what you look for. Saying every replay sucks means you are looking for something other then the replays are showing you. Now what could it be? Ah, so you are looking for better players to play multiplayer with you. Also, what exactly would never work? I am quite sure its obvious to everyone by now that solo and multiplayer is not the same. Most here have been playing solo strategies. They dont always work in multiplayer. How about you come on battle.net and you try other modes like VH-SR? Show some respect. If people have some selfrespect in this forum they will not contact you on Garena because you talk to us like we are inferior to you. Your attitude reminds me alot of a guy who recently got served. This post is not solely for you real_feeder but to show everyone else how lame your attitude is. If the post was only for you I would have sent you a PM. Perm..

Am I going insane? I am sure beyond doubt I did not double post in this thread. Perm..

Which game version are we playing? Perm...

PermanentNoob Perm...

Well, you are almost there. Now we need to teach you how to undo the caps lock before you start typing. Then that you are infact no king at all. And in the end that however good you get, there is always someone better. Until next time. Perm...

I love the idea. SR VH, any mode. Perm..

Agreed! To gauge whos more/most skilled in a random multiplayer game would require SR and everyone play the same difficulty. In my opinion AR is too much luck based and anyone playing normal while others play very hard can bring quite a pressure on the very hard players. Perm...

I understand you completely and I will say again what I wrote earlier Now, to explain my writing for you in very simple terms. To avoid writing whole essays of useless crap of text I simplify the text so you get the idea of what I am saying in as few words as possible. Its the easiest thing in the world for me to write long and boring texts. Now I could be adding some extra information like exceptions, more explanations about this or that. Then I am back to the start, huge text. Have you ever been to an internet conversation and some guy just pumped out 2000 word reply? If you actually start reading and then less then half way through you are asking yourself when this reply is going to end. That is exactly what I am trying to avoid. Plain and simple text. But sometimes it is perhaps too simple as you may not be getting the idea of what I am trying to convey to you. Now I would read it over and see that the first two sentences say what I am trying to say. Everything else is just extra explanations on them. So I have a dilemma. Should I erase the extra explanations or assume he gets the point? In the earlier case you missed the point because I wrote too much other junk. I know the world is not black and white. But to understand different opinions, different point of views, you have to compare them somehow. In my opinion, everything can be compared. Its just a matter of how simple you make the outcome, how many will eventually get the idea of what you are saying. Perm...

Challange accepted if you find / use some kind of delay reducer. Also when did I say that all pick is lame? I think you misunderstood what I was trying to write. It is not about a single build, it's about using all of the builds and knowing their limitations. (which I by far do not know, but I used to know them a long long long time ago) Ok.... First, I dont use any type of third party software when playing wc3 Second, if you require this delay reducer why dont you get it and use it? Third, I dont understand why we even arguing about this. Its clear to me that our opinions about this game are quite different. You see skill in VH random. I see luck in VH random. No amount of skill will help you with absolute trash set of elements. Here is an actual multiplayer scenario wave 48, LNFFWD$LN and 23k gold total Any suggestions? Perm...

Are you in any better position 3 seconds before wave 16 on normal? The builder still needs to rebuild given that you sell and rebuild along the way to kill wave 15. Anyway this topic of discussion is for multiplayer but you keep giving examples of solo play. I dont know if you understand that there is a vast difference between solo and multiplayer. Other players use theft on you, finish the round before you giving you no option to sell some of your towers because the waves are coming in too hot. Meaning less interest and total gold. Im off to play some VH online. Later Perm...

Must be older versions Well, even with the strongest known strategy nowadays we can barely hit past 200. I say it is impossible to get to 400 on VH in the current version without "whosyourdaddy"! Perm...

Add multiplayer and maybe chaos mode and you have the whole package, the best player would be the one who knows the game inside out, is the most lucky with elements and can outresource the other players while they are continuing to harass you with their annoying weapons. Does anyone disagree with this statement? Perm..

Im gonna try a few now. Let you know when I have some results. Perm...

Then you should stick with random. Random is all about luck anyway. Getting useless combos of elements and interests in random forces you to spend more gold on towers and reduces the chance of maxing out vs ronalds or it will force you to alt+q+q. Go on, find out whos the most lucky in random. I find it hilarious when playing random and you get the first extra interest after level 55. Having played all game with 2% interest and then just when you have very little gold anyway, voila, extra interest rate. Then again. Most of you seem to play only solo. I could say that is equally lame as you say all pick is lame. You want this game to be tough? Play in multiplayer. Then first it gets tough because as soon as you start having more gold then the others they start leaching off you your interest. Then they start mass selling your towers and sleep your builder. Protect the creeps and heal them. Now all the awesome micro, building and selling will only help you that much until they are out of the game at level 50-55. What you can do in this situation is either quit or accept the fact that you are not playing to kill ronalds but to outlast the other players. What is the goal of the game? Perm...

I actually cheated to get enough gold to do this build, you can expect to get 610-640 kills on VE depending on luck factor and with 50 lives at start. I got 624 kills on first try. First leak was at 400 kills, at 500 I had 36 lives left. At 550 I had 22 lives left. At 600 I had 5 left. defeated at 624. So I assume the current record is still the best known way to get max ronalds on VE. Perm...

The purpose of my post is to try and raise the bar that people aspire to. In fact, a fair amount of people do claim some sort of title when their feat was achieved on VE. If it was just HowardMoon then I wouldn't have been inclined enough to make this post. I am not saying that only VH requires skill. I am simply saying that VH requires the most skill. I'm not going to lie, I think it is more interesting to watch someone smash a lot of Ronalds on VH as opposed to VE. To that end, it would be nice if people progressed upwards as they get better instead of staying on VE. However, there is no reason to withhold replays. So regardless of difficulty, if it is a game well played then it is a game worth sharing. There are players of all skill levels on these forums, so someone will enjoy it. The advantage of Short Mode is debatable. But no one disagrees with the fact that it's a minor factor. The difference between VE and VH is night and day while the difference between normal and SM is midnight to 1 am. So, technically you may be right but no one should care. Good points Still you dont look at the fact that the ronalds upgrade until you reach 500 kills. The only modes that we currently know break the upgrade barrier of ronalds are VE solo and VE multi using death towers. In all the other modes the ronalds keep getting stronger until you run out of lives. So is 426th ronald on easy worse then 40th ronald on very hard? Its just not possible to compare 500+ on VE to 100+ on VH in my opinion. Therefor saying VH is absolute better then VE is in my opinion bad. I would say that being the best in VH shows that you can micro. Being the best in VE shows you can find the best possible combination. Everything inbetween is a mix of both. This is the way I see it. Perm...

My thoughts exactly. This is precicely why I made a specific category for nondeath builds in the highscores. Death and waterfall is proven to be the strongest combo in the game. Even very hard mode proves that. Only way to fit in other towers with the death+waterfall combo is to play solo. You must "abuse" the game mechanics to stall the game long enough to get enough interest. It might be possible to use roots and thorns towers to gain enough interest without any extra interest or wealth tower to max out. It would be death+waterfall+thorns, giving death towers (30%)? more time to shoot. It would theoretically be the unbeatable record if carried out with minimal amount of leaks until level 61. We are talking about 90-120 minutes game length. Anyone willing to try that? Perm...

Are you kidding? I just tested short mode with 2x interest and at the very start of wave 16 you have 1124 gold (if you dont build anything). This means about 20% difference, is this not relevant? But then again, you could argue what the start of wave 16 is, I assumed it would be when the creeps start running. On the other hand I completely agree on this subject in solo mode. Its irrelevant because you have more control of when the round starts and therefor more control over the interest. I just watched your awesome 134 kills on very hard. The death knight leaks were avoidable though. You had 400k banked and 500k total. To max out your build you only needed about 520k banked gold which is about 400k total. You could have built more towers to kill those death knights and still max out. Still, awesome work on very hard! If you find my calculations illogical then its because banked gold is 100% while total gold calculates the banked gold + elemental towers * 0,75. I guess you already knew that anyway. Perm...

It is not about killing as fast as possible. It is the problem with the noobs killing as fast as possible on whatever mode they are on, be it very easy, easy or normal. You just cannot expect to get over 1k gold consistently within the first 16 rounds of very hard in multiplayer, therefor short mode is an advantage in this scenario. Perm..

Yes they are. But you could have gotten better results with more waterfall towers. You only had 21 but you need 25 in order to maximize the damagepotential of the death towers. So all the time there were 22 towers not shooting at top speed. I usually use 26 nowadays to have some buffer to quicker get all towers shooting at max speed since the top right corner gets usually very little attention from the ronalds until its about to be over I place the extra tower there. Do you still consider it an abuse to use death towers? Sounds quite like whining about blademaster in wc3. Perm...

you are wrong. I did i quick test. Played first waves very casually. Saved some interest and let some go. Finished all waves quite normal pace without stacking interest too much and rushed last wave asap (the wave i could stack most interest). I got 1105 gold from first 15 VH waves without using element arrow/cannon towers. If you wanna go for interest as element picks this is even better start. I think u can squeese to around 1200 gold without exra income elements but that is just a guess. If you are willing to spend extra couple mins to get that 100-200 gold its your choice but i would rather start straight from wave 16. As for your concern on learning towers, ap is definitely nice way to start. But you learn maybe half of towers by optimizing life/death or whatever you feel is powerful. Playing AR forces you to learn, see and use all towers. here is replay Read my comments before proving them wrong. There is a vast difference in performance in solo and multiplayer and I was not referring to solo play. This is not true. While you seem to be the only one with consistently getting better results is simply because you are quicker at it and others are not there just yet. A single game even on short mode takes 30 minutes so that does not leave us many games to be played in 24 hours, does it?

What is the purpose of this post? Are you seriously saying that there is only one mode that takes skill? Are many v.4.3 players saying "I am the best" apart from Howardmoon who has been proven to be not so in any skill level? The only question about hard and very hard should be wether to allow shorter modes then normal because you get more gold and lives with shorter games. So on that topic, to be the best in very hard difficulty according to your logic, you should play every 61 levels. Perm...

Well yes, but given the known highscores you can assume that this is very easy because even on easy mode its quite tough if at all possible to get past 400 without death towers. Totally useless comment. You know what he does when hes not playing eletd? Just a thought. Howard, are you gone? Did I completely crush you or what? Perm...

Hi The sole reason I put all modes in highscores was to see the real stats in them all. Perhaps we see a trait sooner or later throughout the modes. Like a linear trendline if you know what I mean. Now, While I agree we should set some rules about this, I disagree completely that on hardes difficulty the first 15 levels are not trivial. I have been playing lots of Very Hard games online in multiplayer and there is just no way you can get 1k gold within the first 15 or 16 waves. Therefore shorter games are easier on higher difficulty. Especially extra short games where you dont even have to use towers to kill level 3 elements risking a potential loss of lifes. In Hard and Very Hard I suggest either normal length or short mode. Extra short should not be allowed in those two while it does not make that much of a difference in other three. Extra short in easy games might actually be counterproductive imo. Its too much work for one person to handle both random and all pick highscores. I chose all pick because I think it is more important to learn first what towers go well together before even trying random. Perhaps any of you would like to make a random highscore thread? Good stuff Perm...

Hi Impressive amount of ronalds killed! Its funny how the speed reduction on the ronalds seemed to lift off as you killed more of them. They simply looked like ignoring the nova tower. I have updated the highscores. Perm...