some ideas for different game modes

[Guest Dreamthief]

Oh i just thought of a few more ides. I dont think the actual mechanics of the game and towers need changing so much as i would like to see additional modes and games within ele td.

What if there was a mode where you could not sell back towers, Once you built it there it was permanent. that may be interesting.

Also, what about a mode where towers decay, like lose like 10% of their dmg each lvl for 10 lvls then just fall apart. might add an interesting twist for a fun game mode.

How about a team game? or like 2v2v2v2 or something like that?

just some random ideas..

DT

[Guest energig]

they all sound like good ideas to me.

[Guest mrchak]

Ahhh... team game.

I think we would need to change the layout of the map to really make it feel like a team game. When I play I can hardly ever pay attention to what my friend is doing even when we're talking to each other, it takes too much time to just focus on your own area. The gameplay would have to be changed significantly. Which is not to say a team mode wouldn't be fun; I just think that constitutes a redesign of the layout and gameplay thats too significant for just a different game mode.

[Guest Sancdar]

My old suggestion for the team mode:

Creeps have 2x or 2.5x as much health. When you leak, your creeps spawn in your partner's area. If he leaks, the team loses a life and the creep spawns back at your side. Bounties are split evenly between both players, as is interest. Healing waves would have to have a lower heal% to compensate for the increased max life, but other than that I think it *could* work.

[Guest mrchak]

It could work, sure, but would you really feel like you're on a team? I just think the layout is just so secluded you would be in your own world. The gameplay would basically just be the same as if you were playing solo... because your teammate could leave and then you'd have to defend them yourself. To make it work, I'd think that if one team member left, then that players mode would switch to single. In my mind, I fell like teammates should somehow share an area and feel like they complement each other in real time, not like a baton - I damage them as much as I can, here you finish them off...

I don't want to sound like I'm too down on your idea, I think its cool and I could very well be totally wrong. These are just my gut feelings.

[Guest Sancdar]

To work well, you'd have to have complementary element picks. I feel like there should be some interaction between element choices within a team, but not full sharing. I don't really have an idea fleshed out for that yet. I just wanted a mode that could be implemented in the current map.

[Guest LXj]

What if there was a mode where you could not sell back towers, Once you built it there it was permanent. that may be interesting.

Yes! Less micro, more strategy -- I lite that (I know many people would hate that ) Though it'd be better if you could remove tower for the space. And maybe current towers could need rebalancing

[electronX]

What if there was a mode where you could not sell back towers, Once you built it there it was permanent. that may be interesting.

Yes! Less micro, more strategy -- I lite that (I know many people would hate that ) Though it'd be better if you could remove tower for the space. And maybe current towers could need rebalancing

I don't think it has to be a game mode. As far as I know, if the host says -pick, everybody will be forced into pick mode, so nobody can play random. That way, 75% on selling should prevent selling at all. Yepp, there is an exception, the pure level. I think, cannons should be sellable. Once, the space - it would turn to a game where everybody who played eletd twice would start with a mix on 45 (4 for the creeps, 5 for the elementals), then switch to 369 to play the remaining around wave 20-30, but as late as possible - because that is slower, you can get spammed.

So I think that interest is a bit bad because the game is now designed so that everybody always sells (which is not true) and therefore you need more cash than normally possible. Disabling selling would prevent this.

Anyway, say you start with iidndn, what would you do on random mode? I can't do it even now with sell & rebuild. Elemental leaks and more would be added.

(Note that in eletd4 from ddnn you can't upgrade to ddnnee because of the pricing problem present in eletd3.)

So if that's a rule in a tournament, anybody can play it, but to code it.. I don't vote.

-------------

I would happily see the ability to build level 1 elementals before picking. (The ones with the cost of 50.)

[Guest Sancdar]

I have no idea what the second half of your post means.

[Guest LXj]

First, about random. Of course "no selling" should not be combined with random, because random is designed specifically for those who buy and sell stuff.

As for interest: interest is cool. Interest makes you to try to kill all those waves with the least amount of towers. Currently though it also makes you to build and sell like mad and that is not the case for "no selling". Maybe there should be made changes to the interest so that "no selling" could actually work.

What about this: in "no selling mode" interest rate is slightly increased, buy you get money nor every 15s, but after killing a wave.

[Guest Sancdar]

That's a pretty good suggestion, but it needs a little clarification. Would you get interest when the "next wave" timer started, when it ended, or when you personally killed all the creeps from a wave? Obviously the third option doesn't make much sense, but the difference between the other two could be substantial in multiplayer games, especially on lower difficulty levels where the timer is longer. Interest at the start of the timer would be more convenient, since you could begin building before the creeps came, but it would also make a rush player even stronger in comparison to other people in the game.

[Guest LXj]

That's a pretty good suggestion, but it needs a little clarification. Would you get interest when the "next wave" timer started, when it ended, or when you personally killed all the creeps from a wave? Obviously the third option doesn't make much sense,

Heh, I would actually prefer the third option. This mode is not about rushing, but about strategy. "Work smarter, not harder"

Though I am not sure what would be the best solution, I am Basic Tower after all

[electronX]

I have no idea what the second half of your post means.

Hello!

LXj pointed out, but: I have no idea why she/he published this idea, what leaded to work it out. I can only think that the same as in my case would: to see people selling madly and winning, while you can't. And why can't you? Because sell & rebuild is an eletd-specific skill (okay, in Total Annihilation reclaiming for 100% metal was possible, but much slower), which is hard to learn for some kind of players, like me.

But perhaps I was wrong

And what about game design? If a game is designed to need different skills: combining towers to achieve sinergies like slowing, selling sometimes to gain more money and sacrificing some lives to be able to build more expensive towers earlier, what allows you to spare - obviously in case of pures which have a 2.1 new nominal damage / new sum price ratio compared to the 1.1-1.25 of the others.

So. If the game is designed to be completable without selling, then it will be too easy for sellers (when I have 100K at the end, then Cisz would have 200K - that means twice as much towers and the feeling of an easy game). If the game is only possible with the use of selling, what is possible by a slowly increasing [creep hit point] / [sum creep value before] ratio, then it will be (nearly) impossible to finish the game without selling. So if Cisz with his good selling skills would be able to finish the game with hard work, I would be unable. There isn't much strategy in this game at all: try to max out your (damage dealt) / (tower net worth) ratio - use slowing, armor decreasing and two pass. Play 45+369 because of healing and other tricks instead of only one of these blocks. Can you say more, which is not included? (Yes, online: finish early (spam), offline: finish lately (interest).)

[jolin012]

...I love interest (yes, micro, sell/rebuild and non-overbuilding).

[Cisz]

Same here. And if you think that gaining interest is all micro, you don't understand my replays yet.

[Twilice]

I like the interest thing. (altought it's micro)

But I don't like micro the actuall towers to get out 100%.

Here's my idea of it,

a tower has it effectives at 80-90% and 100% at microing.

But I don't like those towers,

towers that have 30-60% of their effectives and 100% at microing.

So I'm not saying that microing is bad.

(got a bit of topic, but I feeled to talk about this)

[Guest LXj]

So what we found out is that there are those who like micro and those who hate it. We already have a mode for micro lovers, why not to add a mode for micro haters?

Now let's get back to details for this mode to make it possible What are your comments on different interest rules?

[Guest Sancdar]

Well, selling will always be better early on unless arrows/cannons start selling for like 95%. Later on, it requires going random, so there's a degree of luck in your element order. I don't think that's so bad. If you don't like selling, you can always play pick and get an advantage over the sellers who don't get their best elements. If you want an easier game that takes less effort, play on a lower difficulty level. I think it's silly to think that any difference in skill shouldn't apply to the game - difficulty levels ought to compensate by allowing less-skilled players or those who don't feel like playing their best to still have a shot. Currently, the max HP vs. starting HP issue is a bit of a problem for that in my opinion, but I don't see your point otherwise.

[electronX]

Well, selling will always be better early on unless arrows/cannons start selling for like 95%..

I think the same, and because of the lower number of towers, which have only 1 type (mixing arrows & cannons in a block is bad, I just put 1-2 arrows to the leak-out zone, p1 or p9), so in this case building and upgrading is not bad at all. The summoning time of 10 cannons causes me pain sometimes, but only rarely.

Later on, it requires going random, so there's a degree of luck in your element order. I don't think that's so bad. If you don't like selling, you can always play pick and get an advantage over the sellers who don't get their best elements. If you want an easier game that takes less effort, play on a lower difficulty level.

Agreed, except that levels are affecting the feeling. I really have problems playing very easy, for example, as well as it's not much fun anyway building a sum of 5 towers. But, it's true, that VE players sometimes beat me and any other H/VH players, but when I choose any ultimate build (like fwldn), they don't survive until level 30-40.

Pick is - in my opinion - only useful in tournaments, because it focuses on more micro (cannons/arrows) and strongly prevents selling, what needs you to know the best (fastest) tower combination available (for you). But if I lose a game in random, I can't repeat it via pick. For example, idnedne is a very special build, because it focuses on instant kill, and I usually have problems with those fire armoured undead/mech creeps But I always realize it when the creeps are half around.

I think it's silly to think that any difference in skill shouldn't apply to the game - difficulty levels ought to compensate by allowing less-skilled players or those who don't feel like playing their best to still have a shot. Currently, the max HP vs. starting HP issue is a bit of a problem for that in my opinion, but I don't see your point otherwise.

I think we have the same opinion in this question, as far as I know

To sum it up:

1. If I were forced not to sell, I would always play the same build. What would you do?

2. If the game is possible to complete without selling, wouldn't it be too easy with selling enabled (ceteris paribus)? Do you agree that no-selling games should either have lower max-hp creeps, slightly higher bounties or an increased starting interest ratio?

[Guest LXj]

If you want an easier game that takes less effort, play on a lower difficulty level. I think it's silly to think that any difference in skill shouldn't apply to the game

Why do you think "no selling" game will be "no skill"? It will require different skill, less involving micro

2. If the game is possible to complete without selling, wouldn't it be too easy with selling enabled (ceteris paribus)? Do you agree that no-selling games should either have lower max-hp creeps, slightly higher bounties or an increased starting interest ratio?

You didn't read the thread. I actually proposed another interest calculation rule for this mode, but everyon is too busy blaming the mode to actually discuss it.

[Twilice]

It would be more micro according to me.

You have to choose towers carefully and attack with them to gain max effencies.

[electronX]

2. If the game is possible to complete without selling' date=' wouldn't it be too easy with selling enabled (ceteris paribus)? Do you agree that no-selling games should either have lower max-hp creeps, slightly higher bounties or an increased starting interest ratio?[/quote']You didn't read the thread. I actually proposed another interest calculation rule for this mode, but everyon is too busy blaming the mode to actually discuss it.

I've red it, maybe yesterday. Yes, interest system could be changed but it would require more balancing if this mode is allowed paralelly with standard players.

In the eletd4 forums there are some much easier ideas and the main developer(s) are discarding them saying "it's too much work". Second, I'm very afraid that 3.x is over.

Anyway, would You build every time different in no selling mode? These guys are coding around 50 towers, many of them with more levels, and they would be sad if only 10 of them would be played. Exact balancing would require many months...

[Guest Sancdar]

I actually try tons of different strategies, so I probably would build differently.

You didn't read the thread. I actually proposed another interest calculation rule for this mode, but everyon is too busy blaming the mode to actually discuss it.

The proposed change to interest is unwieldy for multiplayer games, as I already pointed out.

Why do you think "no selling" game will be "no skill"? It will require different skill, less involving micro

Instead of having a good idea of what to build, and being able to build and sell quickly and effectively, you just need to know what to build. It's less active and takes away one of the set of skills the game needs. I consider playing on pick to take less skill than playing on random, because you can choose a strategy that you already know will work for you and just execute it - that's basically a no-sell game. If you want to play on random and not sell, that's your choice, but you're going to lose more often because some builds are just very hard to use. I don't see why the game needs a special mode for something you can easily choose to do yourself.

[Guest 1mpulse]

uhm... and if you misclick...

[Guest LXj]

All right. I came to understanding that most of EleTD's fun is random mode. So I see how stupid my idea is