New to EleTD, need some tips

[Guest bitterface]

Hi everyone,

I just signed up here, and I've only been playing EleTD for about a week, so bear with me.

I already know the basis of tower defense games; I know about tower ideal tower placement, and how to abuse interest. I've been playing a lot of VH AP lately, as I like a challenge. (I beat VE AP first, to get the hang of the game.)

I'm mostly having trouble figuring out a few specific things:

- How many of which type of tower do I need to place for the first few waves? For example, I know that I only need one super arrow tower to kill creeps in the first wave in one shot. I wrote down the HP of each wave and the effective damage the arrow towers do after mitigation, so I guess I just need to work out the math.

- When should I start building elemental towers?

The next time I play a game, I'll post the replay so people can see how I play. Any help at all is greatly appreciated.

[jolin012]

hey bitterface, and welcome to the board

About the opening, Most of us around here use area 4(when we talk of areas we refer to numpad layout http://eletd.com/images/numpadlayout.JPG ) , arrows for level 1-13 (if playing pick) except for lvl 9 which needs cannons. Read a lot of useful things here if you have time: http://eletd.com/tower-placement.php It's cisz tower placement guide. How many arrows you need for each level? You don't have to to the math read here instead viewtopic.php?f=30&t=792&p=6851&hilit=6ss#p6851 My post there should contain what's needed.

Good Luck

Edit: 2.3.1) in cisz tower placement guid contains some important facts that I didn't mention in the post I redirected you to.

[Guest bitterface]

Thanks for the response. It helped a lot.

One thing I'm not sure about, though, is about what you said in the other thread: "1s

2sn

3sa

4ss

5ss

6ss

7e

8e

9en

10es

11ee

12ee

13ee"

I found that L9, when you need cannons for the undead, the an elemental cannon and a normal cannon just didn't work.

Do you happen to have a straight forward replay I could watch?

[jolin012]

ah right, with EN for L9 was meant for arrows, such as if you play Chaosmode, and level 9 happens to not be an undead level. As for level 9 in non chaos mode, if not having the element of fire, spam super cannons at area 4, as close to each other as possible. If needed, relocate your defense too. Why they must stick together in a small bunch is because the trick of plash on undead is that if all creeps are killed at the same spot, creeps will revive next to another target, and won't need an extra shot. Therefore, it's better on higher levels, like 21, to not spam super cannons, but fewer, stronger, splashers.

Edit: A straight forward replay for all these 13 levels, here's one, both for me and cisz in this replay, however, we do use fire to kill lvl 9 (and don't mind that we use longpass for it, actually it's not good but just in that situation it's ok.) http://eletd.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=757

[Guest bitterface]

Ah, it seems like you can only really plan for levels 1 through 6, as levels 7 and on contain elemental creeps, so depending on how you choose elements, you may not always be able to do the same thing.

How much of your build plan is carefully calculated? I mean, have you guys memorized how many of which towers you need for each level? When do you stop memorizing?

At what point do you stop playing mechanically, and start improvising?

- How come one or both of you would sometimes build a whole bunch of arrow or cannon towers? I saw this happen frequently, and sometimes the towers wouldn't be upgraded at all.

[Cisz]

That replay is a special case. We had like dozens of tries before we managed this one. All you see in it is totally rehersed.

Most of the time I play random, and in that there is little to plan. Normally I build as much as I can and pray. Only the early waves are plannable for me at the moment. From about wave 20 on I just try not to leak.

Here:

1466 (4pb vh sr cm) lwd.w3g

[Guest bitterface]

So you only plan for the first 13 levels, and then the rest depends on your elemental picks and the armor type of the wave?

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

yes, that's the fun of random ^^;

[jolin012]

right, I only have a plan for level 1-6. level 7-13 varies depending on which elements I get, (and the creps if on chaosmode). But it's good to remember things sush as:

a super essective element does double damage

a super arrow tower does a thrid of the damage of an elemental tower.

So - if you pick or random darkness, you can instead of 2 elemental towers at tier 13 (water level) build only one darkness arrow tower, (and something at area 5)

ok, honestly, I woulodn't do that. I would start improvising more right there. While you have the opportunity to sell (arrows and cannons always sell for 100%) at interest timers "1" It's such a waste to have 300 unspent cash. I would build 2 darkness cannons at 4 and 2 advanced or normal cannons at 5. The darkness cannons at 4 would finish off half the wave at a fairily good interest timeing, and quickly sell them and upgrade the normal cannons (advanced if you need more time ->gain less cash) and then upgrade those at 5 into darkness cannons, finish off the rest of the creeps, then sell.

a super arrow does the third damage of an elemental tower. that means, fir level 7, you could instead build 3 super towers, either if you random extra investment, or an element extra weak at level 7. There is a problem here. It's very hard to place 3 arrows that will attack the same creep. There is no known placement, at least at area 4, that almost always (nothing works all the time ) to make 3 arrows hit the same creep, both on first and 2nd pass.

So? what to do? While they don't hit the same creep, you know that there will be overkills, perhaps 2 of the arrows at some point attack the same, and fire twice each on a creep who needs only 3 hits. One Idea is to spread them, another idea is to switch to cannons. One idea is to just overbuild with more than you need, which you will probably need in any case, except for one case.

This thing is called manual targeting, you force your group of arrows manually to attack the same creep. This works only as host, in single player, or with a very good connection to the host. You will no longer be able to sell towers at area 5, but that ain't a big deal if you don't overbuild there.

[Guest bitterface]

Hey all, sorry I haven't responded before now. My internet went out for a bit.

I've started playing more at 4 and 5, simply because the last multiplayer game I got in on I ended up leaking horribly because I was playing at 6 and 3, going for a two pass strategy. I was usually the last to finish the round.

Since I've started playing at 4 and 5, I've figured out what you need to do for towers:

Level 4  5

1     S  A*

2     SN A

3     SA A

4     SS S*

5     SS S

6     SS S


* Tower upgraded during the long pass as gold allows.

So, the first 6 levels aren't a hassle for me. It's more the levels after that. I just have trouble intuitively knowing what I need to build where to make sure I don't leak, especially on levels 9 and 10.

Some other questions:

- After level 6, do you stick with arrows or cannons?

- After level 6, what are the builds if you're going to use cannons?

- What do you do if your only element is countered by the armor type of the current wave? (i.e. darkness is your first elemental pick, level 10 is light armor type)

- Do you stop planning your tower build after level 13, or did jolin's list of tower builds just end there for another reason?

All of my current problems occur between levels 7 and 13.

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

- Do you stop planning your tower build after level 13, or did jolin's list of tower builds just end there for another reason?

jolin's list ends there because that's the last wave where you can effectively one-shot a creep with 2 elemental arrows (disregarding weakness/resistance). If you were to continue the sequence, say with ees or something, you would find that there's no real good placement to have all 3 arrows hit the same creep, so you're going to be wasting shots (as jolin mentioned).

[Guest bitterface]

So jolin's list is is about what towers you need to one-shot a creep, assuming you aren't doing 50% to a creep?

What do you do, then, for level 9? Arrows seem less effective.

What do you do when your elemental towers will only do 50% to the creep?

Those two situations are where I run into the most problems.

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

u could always watch replays and see what people have come up with ^^

For level 9 I usually use a tight group of 4 or so super cannons, with temporary building in between interest. Unless of course you got fire, then you can use that.

when elemental towers only do 50%, dont use them ^^;

If you're talking about rounds 7-13, you'll have to improvise something, either using super arrows or super cannons. Since you probably won't be able to one-shot a creep, you may want to spread the damage out, that way you won't get wasted shots. Or just use cannons. This also happens if you get +interest as your first 1 or 2 picks. I think there's a replay somewhere around here showing how to beat first 20 or so rounds if first 3 or 4 picks are interest.

[Cisz]

Undead (as 9 is on non-chaos) calls for splash. If I play random and get water or fire, I build them, else I use supercannons.

I differ a bit when it comes to placement: I don't like to bunch them. I usually play 5 cannons or waters or fires right besides each other, so they form a horizontal line. If I bunch them, they usually don't do the first kill on the first pass, and I can't sell some for the second one.

[Guest bitterface]

Let me give you guys a very specific example so I can better illustrate my problems:

Let's say I pick darkness at level 5. I won't have any problems until levels 9 and 10. I'll have problems with L9 because (1) arrows are inefficient, and (2) I don't know how many of which type of cannon to use, and where to place them. I've tried putting two elemental cannons on a two pass (6), but I find if my opponents finish the round faster, I'm SOTL.

Then level 10 will kill me, as I can't use elemental arrows to finish the round. You also can't one-shot the creeps with one volley from 2 towers, so you end up overkilling creeps, or spreading shots out too thin.

Oh well; I guess I just need more experience.

[Cisz]

For 9 with dark, play cannons at 4. Spend all your gold (undead is serious buisness). You should try elemental cannons or super cannons. You might leak a bit until you get the hang of it, so prepare to catch leaks at 3 and still get wave 10 at 4.

For ten with a weak element you should be able to afford about 5-6 super cannons. You can either build all of them at 4 or split your gold and build 4 super cannons at 4 and 1-2 temporary cannons at 5, but only do that if you sell them for interest. If you are not fast enough to sell/rebuild stick to cannons at 4.

I have the feeling that this doesn't answer all your questions, so: Ask again.

[jolin012]

I decided to record a replay of lvl 1-13. It's not perfect, but should work for featuring the arrow opening, WITH dark as first element, (and water as second). I also show how to catch a leak, (because I do leak due to talking ). Do miss sell at 5 sometimes also.. however, it should be ok at least.

jolin012 level 1-13.w3g