LV3 Forge, Well and Trickery are too strong

[WindStrike]

Currently, the 4-element build is easily the strongest. While it may be harder to get to as a result of the level 3's involved, the reason it's so awesome is because of the Level 3 Support Dual Towers, ala Factory, Fountain and Deceit. The ones prior to it are fine (and possibly slightly underpowered), but 120% boosts (or having 9 towers for the cost of 4) are simply too powerful. 5-element builds do well, and there's nothing wrong with them. It's just that any 4-element build that uses either Factory, Fountain or Deceit is almost guaranteed to beat it out. I'm not saying drop it by a huge percentage, but for now, what if they were to just drop to doubling the output of nearby towers? (100% or 8 towers at the cost of 4) And if that feels too powerful still, then maybe a drop to 90% boost. Though any lower than that might not make it worth it.

[Karawasa]

This is an interesting topic. Once upon a time a guru named Cisz proposed 400% support (with a different tower balance model). Let's look at it another way;

The assumption is that triple supports are fine.

3 elements get you 10%, 6 get you 30% for triple. 4 elements get you 30%, 6 get you 120% for dual.

The triple offers three duals, none of which can be support. That is variety in damage. The dual offers nothing else. It would take 2 more elements, for a total of 8, for the dual to have the same damage options as the triple.

That means 2 elements is roughly worth 90%. That could be a bit high.

Discuss.

[Yuffina]

Basically, after the nerf to output. the 3 buff towers run like this.

Forge 90%

well 90%

clone 100%

the best builds for just buffs so far on paper are

D3L3+F2E2+W1

D3L3+F2E2+N1

D3L3+W2N2+f1

D3L3+W2N2+e1

Numbers clone:

((100+100%)+30%)+10%= 286 +10%slow

none clone:

((100+90%)+30%)+10%= 271 +10% slow

[WindStrike]

Actually, nerfing to 90% and 60 seconds makes it equal.

120% * 0.75 = 90%

80 * 0.75 = 60

Trickery was always a little ahead of Forge/Well to start with. Personally, I think that's fair, because in the Fruit game, Trickery gives you a lot more towers with decent damage. This is going to give a good damage spread, but not necessarily single-target as it's harder for a mass number of towers spread out over an area (especially ones that need certain positions) to focus fire something down. Meanwhile, Well/Forge provide more firepower to the base number of towers, allowing them to focus fire things down more, which in my opinion is more important. Granted, the level 1 and 2 Trickery Towers are quite a bit more powerful, as it's a temporary "double damage" that you may need (cough, random, lol), but it's not really a problem, as there are plenty more ways to take out the earlier rounds.

[Yuffina]

Clone tower casts clone every 15s

The clone lasts 60s

The clone cool down debuff is 60s.

60/15 = 4

4 starting towers + 4 clone = 8

clone = 100% bonus

well = 90% bonus

forge = 90% bonus

[WindStrike]

Annnnd where was it before?

80/15 = 5.3333

5.3333 clone + 4 starting = 9.3333 towers, which is what it was originally

aka

5.3333 / 4 = 1.33 = 133%

Forge/Well Level 3 = 120%

Trickery Level 3 was the equivalent of a 133% boost when Forge/Well Level 3 were 120%. All of them were nerfed to 75% of what they were.

1.33 * 0.75 = 1.00 = 100% (60 second clones)

1.20 * 0.75 = 0.90 = 90%

Point is, Trickery was always slightly more, and while it's statistically higher, it results in a larger spread of damage across many targets rather than focus firing. Not saying Trickery can't, but Forge/Well are better suited to focus firing, which is better off in the fruit round. That's why Trickery was (and still is) 10% stronger.