Oblivion + Support Duals

[Guest Sancdar]

(Okay, so I'm going to start this post off with the disclaimer that I haven't confirmed how Blacksmith/Well work with Oblivion at all, and I could be totally wrong. What I think happens is that they buff the summoned units, the way that they did back with the summoned skeletons. What should happen is that they buff the tower, the way that Trickery does. Ironically, Trickery ends up functioning how Well ought to be rather than doubling the damage for X seconds like it does for everything else. Well and Blacksmith have what, 1/4 their regular effect because they only cast on 1 summon instead of 4 at a time? That's ridiculous.

My suggestions:

Well should be able to buff the Oblivion tower, increasing its rate of mana regen so it can summon more often.

Blacksmith should be able to buff the Oblivion tower, permanently increasing the damage of units summoned during the buff.

Trickery should be able to buff the Oblivion tower, creating an illusion of each unit summoned by that tower before the buff expires until the buff expires. For example, an Oblivion with 2 units out is cloned - 2 illusions appear. A 3rd is summoned before the 10 seconds of Trickery are up, and a 3rd illusion is created that also expires when the 10 seconds are over.) - edit: all this stuff is pointless, read the rest of the thread

Also on the topic of Oblivion, perhaps allow a waypoint on summoning or increase the target acquisition range to like 1100-1300. I'd prefer the acquisition range thing so that placement could replace micro at the cost of good tower locations. Summoning waypoint feels like it makes it too easy, because you can just dump all your Oblivions at - or / and have them do their thing regardless.

[Guest soyamilks]

I think adding Well and Blacksmith to buff the Oblivion tower would be too strong, as many of the units will be buffed from blacksmith just by one buff from the blacksmith, it would be too unbalance. The idea of well is okay, but I think that this function would be weak than buff the other damage towers as this buff may be wasted. So I don't think adding this two buff is good.

[Cisz]

I havn't got the time to properly read this now, but:

Smith and well boost the tower, and the summons get the buff, if the tower has it. I'm not sure about times of those buffs on the summons.

Trickery just copies the tower.

[Guest soyamilks]

ya, tricky just cast the tower, it should only have the outlook ability of the cloned tower

[Guest Sancdar]

Edit: Dang, Cisz made me look dumb while I was testing other stuff after figuring out I was all wrong

Okay, so after testing I realized that buffs other than Trickery are applied to dragons and do in fact autocast on the towers. So...Well and Blacksmith totally work fine. This thread is now about Trickery and Oblivion!

Trickery1 casts for 10 seconds every 60 seconds on a tower. It also spawns the clone with most of the mana, enough that an ability will be activated during the cloning. Oblivion spawns with 11 mana, and is around long enough to generate 1 unit. At any time, Oblivion has 2-3 units on the map. There's a couple of seconds delay between one dying and the next one being spawned. Because the unit doesn't go away when Oblivion is sold or decloned, Trickery gives Oblivion roughly a 40% bonus in damage for 45 seconds out of every 60. Trickery gives normal towers a 100% bonus in damage for 10 seconds out of every 60, not counting ability activations which change up the numbers a bit. .4*3/4 = 3.6/12 while 1 * 1/6 = 2/12. Assuming my numbers are close, Trickery benefits Oblivion much more than it ought to.

On the other hand, Trickery2 casts for 20 seconds every 60 seconds on a tower. It still spawns the Oblivion clone with 11 mana out of 15. However, since summoning takes a second to cast, Trickery2 *sometimes* only allows each clone to generate 1 unit. Trickery2 thus switches between giving the evaluated 3.6/12 boost and a 7.2/12 boost, but it's entirely unreliable.

Someone smarter than me figure out a way to make this more consistent/balanced the same way as other towers, please. Do Well and Blacksmith provide the correct 15% boost?

Another side note about Oblivion: in random, you can get at least twice as many spawns with constant trickery/oblivion buy/sell micro. It costs about the same as 1 Oblivion to double production on 3 Oblivions.

[jolin012]

Edit: Dang, Sancdar made me look dumb, by answering before I had finished my post.

And yes - in short, your idea is right sancdar, but this was actually allready fixed

i don't know what Cisz means by

"Smith and well boost the tower, and the summons s"

but i think what he means is that the well and smith boost the oblivion tower, and that a buffed oblivion tower will spawn archers that attack faster/with more power. or at least that's ho it's supposed to be.

[Guest Sancdar]

i don't know what Cisz means by

"Smith and well boost the tower, and the summons s"

but i think what he means is that the well and smith boost the oblivion tower, and that a buffed oblivion tower will spawn archers that attack faster/with more power. or at least that's ho it's supposed to be.

Right, I didn't realize that had already been changed, and I think it works how it's described.

[Guest Phaust]

Well,I saw on a yesterday -random game that when a Oblivion tower gets Spring Forward or Fire Up, all your dragons get the buff, including those already summoned.I dont get whats the issue with trickery and oblivion :S

[jolin012]

Phaust - all the posts except the very first one in this thread already explained that it has already been fixed But thanks for confirming this.

[Guest Sancdar]

Actually I'd already edited the first one. Any comments on Trickery bugging out half the time, and giving the wrong boost % to Oblivion anyway? Any comments on changing target acquisition range?

[echinodermata]

why not just make trickery work on oblivion in the manner that well and blacksmith do? exactly double the number of dragons in play. the following are all equivalent ideas of how it could be done:

trickery copies the tower, all the dragons that the target tower had, and all the dragons that the target tower summons while the copy tower is in play. i.e. the copied tower is just a dummy. all the copied dragons go away when the copied tower goes away.

trickery copies the tower, all the dragons that the target tower had, and sets the copied tower's mana equal to the original tower's mana. all the copied dragons and the dragons summoned by the copied tower go away when the copied tower goes away.

trickery puts a buff on the tower. all the dragons that the target tower had when the buff was but on, as well as all the dragons that the target tower summons while having the buff, are doubled. all the copied dragons go away when the buff goes away.

probably the second option is most in line with how trickery works for normal towers.