[Beta 17b] Rushing Duals

[Guest Sancdar]

Two duals I've seen so far are incredibly good at rushing early on in VH. For level 11 through 21, Disease can rush all but two levels so quickly that creeps start clumping up on other players' lanes.

Hydro is much too strong right now as well, but there is a topic specifically about it already.

Part of the problem with Disease is that if you are playing to rush, on VH you can still have corpses from the previous wave around to blow up when the next wave comes through. The only early waves that prove troublesome are the two undead waves, but you can still take them without leaking and most players have trouble with undead anyhow. Even if you have to build in the back to catch a few leaks, you start the rush back up again on the next level.

I don't have any ideas on how to fix it. The ability is just very strong on non-undead levels if you have a way of making corpses in the first place.

[dvdlesher]

Talk about disease and corpses. I think disease is less useful on undead level don't you think?

Maybe the first death of the undead creep should consider the creep as a corpse, but still revive-able..

Now, I'm sorry for going off-topic, but don't you think that flamethrower / flamespewing tower should deserve an explosion on the first death of undead creep as well?

I hope everyone understand what I meant

[Guest Sancdar]

I actually am totally fine with those two towers being somewhat crippled on undead waves. The waves end up clumping a lot with the revives, so after the initial delay on effects you get very strong AoE. The problem is getting enough damage on the front of the wave to make sure you can use that AoE later...

In my tests with Disease, I've been pretty much forced to get water for the fire revenant level (21?). If there were corpses for the first death, nothing would slow Disease's reign of terror early game.

Although if you think about it, shouldn't every undead creep be considered a corpse? Hmm...

[jolin012]

you're right sancdar. as soon as corpses begin showing up, disease can get the full job done, output it's full effectdamage, on one pass.

if they are powerfull enough to destroy a wave on 2pass then they are powerful enough to do in one onepass too. combined with a couple of arrows or a magictower to get teh first kill. same should go for flamethrower tower. these concepts they use are fun and interesting - but dangerous balancewise to deal with. Anyone knowing what shall we do about it?

[Guest Sancdar]

I haven't been able to think of a change to stop the power-rush that wouldn't also make the tower useless. It gets pretty weak after level 22, but you can upgrade to Roots or some other triple (or sell on random ofc.) I think holepercent said he might test some Disease builds soon.

[jolin012]

how about DNEF? disease+flamethrower (they should stack) and magic to get kills. one magic one disease and one flamethrower should kill most things entering even if placed right at entrance.. except perhaps lvl 37.. buildtesting is da trick. go for it holepercent