Need help/advice on HARD and VERY HARD

[Cheng]

Hi Guys, I have been playing Eletd quite some time.

Just my 1st time posting here

I started with very easy some time ago then easy and can now beat normal (what I mean with beat is at least pas level 60 , where 61 Ronald is just a big test.. my record is 224 ronalds though)

Now I tried many times but cannot beat Hard ..so also not Very Hard..

I don't know what I did wrong.

I tried different ways, 2 ways, long way...etc.etc.

Can you guys who beat hard/ very hard give me advice?

like; WHEN to change from arrow and splash towers INTO elementals?

when you have 2 elementals? or even wait for 3?

OH yeah have to say that I always play random (more fun). is -AP neccesary to beat hard/ very hard?

So yeah the problem for me is, kinda during the half of the game. around level 30 or so...

I will lose too many lives after a while before I reach even 50...

I can't watch your guys newest replays because, Im playing the Chinese version (im in China) and we use an older warcraft version here-.-" 1.20E

Anyone can give me tips and advices?

Thnx

Cheng

[Cisz]

Welcome to the board.

Are we talking about the 4.0pb of eletd or the 3.0? A lot has changed there.

Yes, I think I can help you. I have a lot of older replays on the 1.20e that might interest you, allthough they are on the 3.0 version of the map. And I could fire up evercraft to take a look at your games maybe. Are we talking about the 4.0pb of eletd or the 3.0? A lot has changed there.

It's hard to give any advice without very small questions or a replay, because we allready found out so many things that a player can do wrong. A quick look at the FAQ might help a bit, and I have written a far too long guide on placement, and it's not even finished, but it might be helpfull.

It is important where and with what oponents you play. You are playing random, right? When starting to master "hard", I suggest you play either alone or all players should be on hard, samerandom. If you play samerandom, and save your replay, you can take a look at what your oponents did, after the game, so you can learn from whoever won. As a beginner on this difficulty you should try to play on the right side of the map. Very good opponents may play so fast that you can't survive on the right side, and if that happens to often, try single player instead, or play with friends that won't do that to you.

WHEN to change from arrow and splash towers INTO elementals?

when you have 2 elementals? or even wait for 3?

The fun thing about random is, that all towers sell at 100%, you can sell and rebuid everything. So there is no rule for when to use elemental towers. Whenever you can afford them, and if they do work on the wave you are playing, you can use them. For the next wave you can sell them and build something else. I often play wave 6-20 with earth towers whenever possible. They do massive damage, and whenever nature creeps come up, I switch to something else.

You are aware of the basic concepts I assume? Which element does high or low damage on which armour? And if you are playing the 4.0 you know about what undead and mechanical do?

And here are some replays for tft 1.20e:

Cisz chal8-fwdn.w3g

gold_NO_LEAK_3-0.w3g

Elem3-0 502 (vh) rnd won.w3g

[Cheng]

hi Cisz:)

thnx for your reply!

ACtually I am talking about the newest map 4.0 ofcourse. I love it.

I read your FAQs and the other info long ago, and I do know about the undead and mechanical.

Just maybe need to know whether I should mass 2, 3 places full of different towers,

or just 2, 3 very strong (3 elementals) in the mid for long way or 2-way?

Or when to switch what? It seems when It try, it will leak and is often already too late to rebuild etc etc...hmmmm

[Cisz]

Ok, replay time. I'll fire up evercraft and play random on vh for you and you'll post me one of your replays, and maybe I can give you some advice..

Stay tuned for a replay in a bit.

(Walks of to play.)

[Cheng]

remember that I use 1.20E though

thnx again Cisz, you're a life saver!

[Cisz]

1.20e is fine. And here is a first replay:

1431 Eletd (4pb vh) leak till ronald (1-20e).w3g

[Cheng]

thnx ^^ try it soon.

[Cheng]

damn you're good!...

cant even pass level 40 with hard..........

you built/rebuilt so fast~~................sigh...

[Cisz]

That's just one way to play the map. So where is your replay? You need help, I need replay.

[Cheng]

....

have no confidence anymore to beat it.......

I just cant predict/built/rebuilt so fast..

usally I make ALL different elemets towers as possible

(2 elements first, and if can 3 element towers of 1017 gold etc..)

and don't resell all of them...just most expensive one/easiest rebuilt one...

replay....maybe tonight....I will just die....on hard....

[Cheng]

here is my failure replay

Eletd 4.0PB Hard......w3g

[Cisz]

You play good but the map is meant to be hard, so to win you need to play very good, and that takes practice.

There are only a few smaller mistakes you make, like placing ice bad (it belongs on a short pass, see further down the post for how to place ice), using fire towers to catch a leak (splash), nature is much better for that, and upgrading monsoon to late. You should simply practice on that difficulty, and don't worry that you have problems, it's called hard for a reason.

So what you need to is not avoiding mistakes (you make only a few) but to learn to make the most of your towers.

Here are some general tips:

-Allways plan ahead. If you know the next wave needs a different element, at least get your worker in the right place, maybe start laying out some basic cannons or arrows, so you just have to upgrade, or even build the basic elemental towers. If you expect the next elemental, prepare for it beeing a higher level one. I guess the first level two elemental can be spawned after wave 20 or 25, I'm not sure.

-When playing on random and facing a hard wave, try to relocate towers from 4-5 to 6-9, so that you gold attacks twice. (You know where 4-5 is?) For relocating, planning ahead is important. Lay down the starting towers for both groups whenever you can.

-Mechanical creeps are best attacked with either the strong element (eg. nature vs wave 20, earth mechanical), or with single target on long pass. As you might know, long pass doesn't work well, so you will either have to play at 3, so the second pass is pretty long, or even better, relocate from 5 to 9. Use elemental arrows, nature towers, magic, electricity, or similiar for best results. Relocating will work with splash too, just not quite as strong on mech.

-If you keep a part of your towers for all waves, try to select them in a way that they have no weakness vs any elements. For example, a corrosion (fire) and a muck (dark, covers fire against water) should be covered with an equal ammount of earth dmg (quaker, gold, focused earth, a pair of hydros) against light. Another good combo is roots, nova, and storm. The two groups efd and wln cover each other in a circle. (You understand efd?)

-Try to use the highest level towers that you have, as they have a better dmg/gold ratio. Not all towers allready work well, so trust your knowledge on what tower will do something and which won't. But if you can spend your money on focused earth or refined fire, go for fire on anything but water (and maybe light).

And here is advice to maximise specific towers:

Storm

-If you have a storm, move the hurricane to cover more path.

If you do it like this, it covers all creeps that you can see in this picture:

If the hurricane spawns far away from that place, you can also use this spot.

If you move it out of the middle of the path, the hurricane can slow creeps on both sides of a ledge. The far side gets only a small coverage, but that is enough to make a difference in many cases. In the case of the first picture "small coverage" adds up to the entire center of the map.

Impulse

Impulse does up to 4300 dmg when firing at far away creeps, but can go as low as 1300 when firing at near creeps, so if you are using impulse, you should constantly manually target the farthest targets. When playing impulse at 5 (like you did, and it's a good place for that) you should start by firing at the creeps left of 7. Retarget after every shoot, don't let the tower follow one creep. After the waves is past that place, start to target the creeps that just arived above 1, and when they are throught there, at under 2, then right of 6, and above 8. If you master this, you can use this tower vs mechanical creeps. Add the well whenever you can afford it.

Quaker

This needs the help of slow and belongs on long pass. Works best with speed bonus (well).

Ice and flame

These are single target slows. You can use them with micro: You build a lot of them, select them all and press "s" after every shoot, so they will retarget and slow another creep. Or you can use them on short pass:

Another ice belongs into the corner at 9.

When placed like this, a tower of 700 range will hit each target only one time, so you force it to retarget for every shoot. Enchantment and afaik polar retarget automatically, but ice and flame don't.

If you have both flame and ice, place the other one besides that place. It's not perfect but better than having to micro.

That's it for this replay. Play some games, send more replays, ask questions. And don't let my replay get you down. Did you notice the number in the filename? That was my 1431th game on an eletd map. You won't need 1000 games to get better than I am now, no doubt about it.

[Cheng]

wow thnx Cisz....

you have REALLY a lot experience lolz...

I hope I can beat hard one day...and then very hard -.-" which seems just impossible for me.

Today again I managed to get to level 50 only... hmm

It's just hard to understand all your big advices...cause every game is also different..have to adjust myself also...

I try more later I guess...almost want to give up...

[Noddy]

hi Cheng ,

I'm not as pro as Cisz , but to my experience on play eletd rite ...

For Vhard , hard , you must take note of 2 things :

1) What are your slowing towers?

2) What are your damage towers

In my build , i normally had root , nova and windstorm as my slowing towers . For damage, most of them use quaker and flamethrower . So in conclusion , Just remember ...

You slow them together and attack them with splash damage ^^,

Thats all , hope that i did help you abit...

[Cheng]

thnx. I completed HARD once on Random.

now it's time for VH-.-" its very hard indeed..

[Cisz]

Hey, great. Replay pls.

[Cheng]

lol Cisz.

sorry didnt save that replay.

long ago...

I actually randomed ALL 6 elements once or more. so I had the right towers hehe.

especially the slow ones....

hmm now hard every time cant come far -.-"

[Cheng]

k Cisz... 2 replays again..

1st one is, VH random

2nd one is VH, random short mode (to save time...)

it's very hard >.<

EleTD VH - 1st attempt...w3g

EleTD VH - 2nd attempt short mode....w3g

[Guest ma23]

what version of war3 are you using? it wont let me watch the replays.

afaik 1.21b is the latest revision

[Cheng]

lol we still use the old version here in Shanghai, 1.20E -.-"

[Cheng]

ok Cisz...3rd time

i need more in-dept tips......

what am doing wrong?

wrong places? i did 2 way and long way hybrid all the time...

wrong towers? I tried many different, slows and damage, incl my best tower (4500+ gold)

sigh...

EleTD VH - 3rd....w3g

[Cisz]

Ah, you are getting a lot better.

Some tips:

-Don't build at 4 (you know where 4 is?) unless you know it works. If you can't bet your car that it works, build at 3-6.

-Especially don't build at 4 for mech, fast, and composite.

-Especially don't use magic and mushroom at 4. Both need a pause between the two passes to rest their special ability.

-Watch your replays and pause when the creeps arive under 4 again. Have your towers stopped firing before they do? If your towers don't stop between passes, it's not a two pass.

-If you have aoe slow, build it. Why didn't you throw up some roots in the third game?

-Impulse can't hit the entire map with your placement, the lower one can't hit the upper lane and vice versa. They belong into the very center.

-You heavily leaked an undead wave while wasting your impulse towers on a fire 3 element. It takes only 50% dmg from nature, remember? When in doubt, kill the wave, leak the element.

-The flame belongs into the corner, not the voodoo.

-Try to learn relocating. Use a set of identical dmg towers at 4 (for most waves) or 5 (for mech), sell them and upgrade towers you allready prepared at 9. While the towers at 9 fire, prepare towers at 4 or 5 again.

Don't expect to get much better, you allready are very good. I often die on rnd too. To win vh rnd, you need skill and luck. If you play like that in multiplayer you will need about 20 games to find a better player.

Edit - I just watched my replay again, and it might look like I don't follow my own tipps. The problem is, there are exceptions from every rule. We will get to them once you are bored playing the standard procedure.

[Cheng]

Thnx for your precious advice Cisz ^^

I guess I've to play more and then will get it one day... lol

Thnx again!

Cheers

[Cisz]

Hope it helps. Keep those replays coming.

[Cheng]

hmm you said dont build at 4? I tried 6 often...it works very well in the beginning but...later not..

do you think its smart to always try to rebuilt with the strong element and sell the weak element each round? because later, after level 30 or 40 I have to rebuilt so fast that I can't keep up with the wave...

advisable always to use the best element, and of not 200%, use my strongest 100%?

this is what I have in mind...but to rebuilt so much at end levels, you won't be able to keep up...

yesterday I had a tornado tower in the mid, the rest on 6. could do well till around 30 or so and then starting to leak slowly.... with this way I could'nt even reach 51 which was my record building on 4...etc ..

hmmm more trying....I guess