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Thunderbolt

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23 hours ago, Thunderbolt said:

alright, the current 2nd place, JoeJoeJoe had 952K after level 55

according to the board he cleared 1 extra waves of OSfrogs. that should make 977K then. He finished the game though with 994K and 58 OSfrogs. that is 17K for 58 frogs.

In my test game I didnt clean an entire wave, but nevertheless got 71 frogs. But I only got 9K for these 71 frogs, while he got 17K for his 58. so does this mean OSfrog kill score increases as well when having finished an entire wave?

 

had 954K after level 55 now and also cleared the first wave of frogs. I ended up with 977k score, killed 71 frogs in total and wave 1 completely. now I wonder how first place can have a better score with lower starting points after round 55, same number of frog rounds completed entirely and less frogs overall?

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well he died earlier to the frogs, because I killed more. does dying earlier to frogs/ending the game faster that way give more bonus points? that would be pretty absurd for the boss rounds.

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I dont know what his bonus was for that round, mine was 130% that game. but as I said, my score after round 55 was 2k higher than his. this should be the decisive factor, shouldnt it?

afaik his speed score for that round could have been slightly higher than mine, because 1 nature tower placing was different. his was optimized to kill the wave faster, mine for better frog killing.

still, in the end the score after level 55 must mean that the highest score had the fastest playthrough overall, up to that point, right? none of us leaked anything.

could there perhaps be a bug that the speed score of round 55 is somehow calculated into the boss levels? or that there are some other boni in the frog waves which are sometimes applied and sometimes not, because its bugged? otherwise this doesnt sound logical to me.

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alright, now I really think something must be wrong. the guy at 3rd place (haHAA) also had 952k after round 55. he didnt finish OSfrog wave one, because from what I saw he leaked at least 2 creeps of that wave (with 9XXk hitpoints). few second later, his score went up to 979 though. when the game ended, his score suddenly was 993, with 57 frogs killed.

in my last game I started with 954K after round 55 and cleared the first boss wave. my score went up to 977k for that. this is for some reason less than he got (for not finishing the wave!) and also I did not get any additional bonus at the end of the game! my score remained at 977k, with 71 frogs killed and 1 wave cleared.

I guess there must be some bugs or randomness involved here.

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25 minutes ago, Thunderbolt said:

alright, now I really think something must be wrong. the guy at 3rd place (haHAA) also had 952k after round 55. he didnt finish OSfrog wave one, because from what I saw he leaked at least 2 creeps of that wave (with 9XXk hitpoints). few second later, his score went up to 979 though. when the game ended, his score suddenly was 993, with 57 frogs killed.

in my last game I started with 954K after round 55 and cleared the first boss wave. my score went up to 977k for that. this is for some reason less than he got (for not

Erm you may not necessarily kill the first wave of Ice frog, in my playthrough, i somehow cleared wave 3 of icefrog instead of the first wave so that may explain why he got more points. im #17 though because of that 1 wave

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tbh I find this rather unlikely considering how much the hitpoints of the frogs go up. the last creep he leaked of the first wave already intermingled with the 2nd wave and of that wave also slipped through. so it must have been wave 3? sounds rather impossible. if you cant even kill wave 1 and then wave 2 and 3 also intermingle, I dont see how this could have happened (with the current builds at the top of the leaderboard). also, his score went up to 979 after the last 2 frogs of wave one leaked and also few ones of wave 2 jumped leaked as well.

I have to say though that I also have seen another wave having been said to be cleared (dunno if it was with rush?), its not Ive never seen this message. but I doubt that this is correct in insane chaos rush with the current builds.

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16 minutes ago, Thunderbolt said:

tbh I find this rather unlikely considering how much the hitpoints of the frogs go up. the last creep he leaked of the first wave already intermingled with the 2nd wave and of that wave also slipped through. so it must have been wave 3? sounds rather impossible. if you cant even kill wave 1 and then wave 2 and 3 also intermingle, I dont see how this could have happened (with the current builds at the top of the leaderboard). also, his score went up to 979 after the last 2 frogs of wave one leaked and also few ones of wave 2 jumped leaked as well.

I have to say though that I also have seen another wave having been said to be cleared (dunno if it was with rush?), its not Ive never seen this message. but I doubt that this is correct in insane chaos rush with the current builds.

also comes down to the repel (or whatever its called) timing. i have the DPS but when the repel comes up, ill leak the 1 or 2 frogs

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The leaderboards say that he cleared wave 56 so his first score jump was from completing the wave, his second from his remaining frog kills. Note that neither speed nor clean bonuses apply to frogs so leaking some and killing them on your second try will give you just as much score as killing them on your first try.

 

 
  local remainder = frogKills % 30
  extraFrogScore = remainder * 100 * self:GetBossBonus(playerData.bossWaves-1) * self:GetDifficultyBonus()
   

 

I do however think that the way the score is calculated for any remaining frog kills looks suspect. First of all, if I kill more than 30 frogs without cleaning a full wave not all of them will count. Second, rush bonus is not applied. Third, a 1 should be added to the difficulty bonus before multiplying.

 

Also, if anyone knows how to paste code with proper formatting, please let me know.

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7 minutes ago, shadowart said:

The leaderboards say that he cleared wave 56 so his first score jump was from completing the wave, his second from his remaining frog kills. Note that neither speed nor clean bonuses apply to frogs so leaking some and killing them on your second try will give you just as much score as killing them on your first try.

 

 
  local remainder = frogKills % 30
  extraFrogScore = remainder * 100 * self:GetBossBonus(playerData.bossWaves-1) * self:GetDifficultyBonus()
  end

well that makes sense. still, two questions remain:

1. why did he get more points for his clearing of the first wave? I had 2k more after level 55, after the 1st wave clearing I had 2k less than him (and I killed this wave faster than he did). these numbers should be entirely static if no time component is involved here.

2. why didnt I get the 2nd jump of points at the end of the game, for my overall number of frog kills? this is not the first time this happened, this happens actually quite often (to me) that this last bonus is not applied.

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is there a way to recognize which frogs are from frog wave1?

because its rly hard to find and focus them in between all the other frogs of the next rounds

kinda sad if you dont get bonus at the end because a couple of wave 1 frogs are still walking around somewhere ./

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ofc frogs that leak with little hp left are easy to find but frogs who still have a lot of life left can't be seen other than by checking the max hit points

with the masses of frogs walking at the end its pretty difficult to figure that one out though..

generally, I also think that frog bonuses and "completing game bonus" seem weird sometimes

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Honestly Rush Frogs is a mess, I tried to get them to work the best I could but the odd-number of frog kills might be making the calculation feel very random. The fact that you can kill frogs from wave N or even clear it while still dealing with an earlier wave is complicated and it might be not working as one would expect. I think I mentioned it before but I think we'll probably need to review the Boss waves using the Rush mechanic in the first place.

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that looks really strange:

 

 
  local remainder = frogKills % 30
   

 

%<-- That is modulo so your local remainder drops again when you go over 59 frogkills. 

8 hours ago, Thunderbolt said:

had 954K after level 55 now and also cleared the first wave of frogs. I ended up with 977k score, killed 71 frogs in total and wave 1 completely. now I wonder how first place can have a better score with lower starting points after round 55, same number of frog rounds completed entirely and less frogs overall?

So your local remainder is 71%30= 11(*0.6=~7k). and his Local remainder is  58/30= 28(*0.6=~17k).
 

  extraFrogScore = remainder * 100 * self:GetBossBonus(playerData.bossWaves-1) * self:GetDifficultyBonus()
   

if (playerData.bossWaves ==1)  extraFrogscore=0.  So you won't get any extraFrog Score. If you are in the first BossWave.



That's why you see the top scores all close to 60 Kills and not over because right now you lose points if you get more kills in most cases:D.

Tip: Stop attacking at 59 kills and save the frogs!

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well that finally sounds like an explanation. tbh Ive almost suspected something weird like this, but didnt try it in sandbox mode yet.

it would be nice if you could fix this T_T

edit: I wasnt in the first frog wave when the game ended though. its wave 3 or 4? which was has already been called then.

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hi,

 

just out of curiosity, would it be feasible to give every creep an individual score value?

So your score would instantly increase when killing a creep. The score could be lowered on how long it takes you to kill it too f(deathtime - spawntime). An incremental bonus might be more complicated though e.g. if you'd kill a creep from the next wave before finishing the current wave, it would get a lower bonus.

Guess this would be more resource intensive, so not sure if it is a good idea, but i would fix frogs.

 

What do you think?

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I would only change it for the frogs.

Dont give score for wave clear. Just give like 700(example number)/per kill for the first 30 frogs 800 for 31-60...

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The remainder was because outside of Rush, if you fully kill 3 waves (which are guaranteed to be 90 frogs of Wave 1, 2 and 3), then kill lets say half the wave 4 (15 frogs), I just wanted those 15 frogs to count for something. But the nature of Rush frogs is different, so you can kill 75 frogs but not have killed wave 2, making it all messy.

 

As I said before, I believe removing the Rush mechanic from Boss waves is probably for the best (and I'm not saying this only because its hard to compute the score values properly)

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To summarize everything that has been mentioned if someone is looking for the answer

 

1) There is a score bonus for how fast you can clear the wave which is cumulative and it can reset if you clear too slow, this cumulative bonus is also true for the clean bonus which basically means you can't leak any creeps.

 

2) Killing OSfrog levels requires you to somehow kill the full 30 frogs from each wave to be awarded the points, it took me a few attempts and lots of frustration to figure this out and conclude that the #1 rank is more or less about luck at the moment if you know how to build up till the final level.

 

Source - Just got 2x 995k with over 60 frog kills in both games but failed to clear the actual 2nd wave of OSfrog so the score ends up showing 'Cleared up to wave 56' whereas the #1 is 'Cleared up to wave 57' as his 82 frog kills counted for 60/60 of the wave 1 and 2 frogs with the other 22 being from other waves.

TL;DR - Kill the waves fast and you get a higher score, OSfrog level is borderline impossible to clear twice in insane + rush without a bit of lucky targeting.

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12 minutes ago, Thunderbolt said:

^^this

and mostly it involves also luck not to have bad timing with invulnerability

I feel like reanimate fire/composite is much more painful to deal with if you place your nature towers in good spots. There's just no way to deal with a large swarm of units if you lack the number of attacks required to actually pass the wave, but yeah I totally agree with you on the part where you need luck to actually get a high score if you understand what is required for each level.

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